Fearless, you might find it revealing to go here: http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ and take the free test. The enneagram (similar to the Myers-Briggs typology, but better IMHO) can be a handy way to gain insight into yourself.
Cobra, I'm suspecting fearless is a Type 1. Type 1's have to be perfect, AND they don't have any shame about it. In their minds, it just has to BE that way. When fearless said that, that was my tipoff.
Check out these descriptions of the average Type 1 (from higher to lower): -------------------- Level 4: Dissatisfied with reality, they become high-minded idealists, feeling that it is up to them to improve everything: crusaders, advocates, critics. Into "causes" and explaining to others how things "ought" to be.
Level 5: Afraid of making a mistake: everything must be consistent with their ideals. Become orderly and well-organized, but impersonal, puritanical, emotionally constricted, rigidly keeping their feelings and impulses in check. Often workaholics—"anal-compulsive," punctual, pedantic, and fastidious.
Level 6: Highly critical both of self and others: picky, judgmental, perfectionistic. Very opinionated about everything: correcting people and badgering them to "do the right thing"—as they see it. Impatient, never satisfied with anything unless it is done according to their prescriptions. Moralizing, scolding, abrasive, and indignantly angry.
Fearless (who is an engineer with a flawless eye for detail) wrote
Quote:
NOP,
For the record: LFL did not mention you by name until you asked.
Right again.
NOP WROTE YESTERDAY:
Quote:
Hi, LFL. Quote: -------------------------------------------------- That is why I cringe sometimes when I see people trying to follow someone's advice off of this baord as if it is going to be the Holy Grail of solutions. -------------------------------------------------- Names? What are your fears? -NOPkins-
LFL REPLIED:
Quote:
Oh, come on Nop, I already pointed out that you and Cobra are people that come to mind regarding this issue.
He could withhold it to KEEP you from hitting the 'perfect' mark, and always control the R... for without the 'knowingness' of you perfectly taking care of someone, you will wade into the sh!t, rise and take the bait, whether you want to do it or not.
To constantly expect him to validate you, you attempt to control the R by controlling his actions and responses.
I know y'all may think that I am pushing this away from discomfort or that I am resistant to the idea, but you have to believe me that I am more than willing to see my faults and weaknesses and this just does not ring true. I get no emotional response from it. That is kind of my internal check on how close I or someone else is to a true emotion. It's how one therapist quickly tagged one of my core beliefs. He heard that emotional catch in my voice as I quickly teared up. I am not going to let it go or ignore it. I will consider it but like I said it just seems foreign and I feel flat thinking about controlling someone.
OOOOOH but what about this. What if xH was actually TAKING my control of MYSELF away from me? WHAT IF I was used to being able to state my feelings and feeling that sense of control over my feelings and my xH "robbed" me of that? Not that I needed validation of the feeling but remember he didn't passively "withhold" validation which would have still left me with the feeling. NO he told me that I SHOULD NOT feel that way. This was foreign and confusing for me as someone used to owning her feelings.
All right that was completely off the cuff and is a COMPLETELY new idea. I have no idea how accurate it might be but I know I am shaking a bit and my heart is pounding. At least it may guide me in the right direction.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
For the record: LFL did not mention you by name until you asked.
Lil: Right again.
LFL REPLIED: Quote:
Oh, come on Nop, I already pointed out that you and Cobra are people that come to mind regarding this issue.
I must be missing your point. You yourself have said that you thought LFL was referring to you. So, rather than assume, LFL was asked for clarification.
Lest my post about Type 1's come across as too negative, let me add that all 9 types have positive and negative qualities. I just quoted the Average zone, because Level 5 mentioned being afraid of making mistakes.
Without Type 1's we would not be sitting here in air-conditioned (or heated buildings) with cars in our driveways (or garages) writing on computers. Type 1's are the people who make sure the trains run on time, that when you flip a switch in your home the lights come on, that the books in the library are filed correctly even if no one is there to see them.
Who would you rather have in charge of your local nuclear reactor-- fearless with her uncompromising standards of perfection, or Mr. Mojo (or me) who might just be too mopey and sad one morning to check out the flashing red light on that panel?
Perfectionism and standards are absolutely necessary-- and very appropriate for an engineer-- UNTIL you try to apply them to your own emotions/feelings. The direction of growth for the 1 is-- ta-DA!-- 4, which means more introspection, perhaps some artistic expression, acquaintance with and acceptance of one's own dark side.
This is my "fault". I am not trying to be a stickler as much as point out that there can be different views of how people approach issues.
LFL and I had been writing about know-it-alls and LFL made a comment that I felt was more about people TAKING advice because she wrote that That is why I cringe sometimes when I see people trying to follow someone's advice off of this baord as if it is going to be the Holy Grail of solutions.
NOPS then responded by asking these questions Names? What are your fears?
Which I FELT as baiting questions. I was then curious if NOP had purposely done this as a technique to draw LFL out. He wrote that An open ended question is not baiting. I personally may not agree with this exact statement but, although it did not directly answer my question, I inferred that NOP did not purposely bait LFL.
I just found it to be interesting and it was just to satisfy a personal curiously. No harm was meant and I definitely did not mean to confuse everyone. I am still learning the personalities here much less interpreting people.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
This is my "fault". I am not trying to be a stickler as much as point out that there can be different views of how people approach issues.
Well, unless you're heading up Lil's experment lab, it isn't your "fault" since you're not in control of her keyboard. You asked for clarification, got it and whether or not you agree with it, you accepted it at face value.
OOOOOH but what about this. What if xH was actually TAKING my control of MYSELF away from me? WHAT IF I was used to being able to state my feelings and feeling that sense of control over my feelings and my xH "robbed" me of that? Not that I needed validation of the feeling but remember he didn't passively "withhold" validation which would have still left me with the feeling. NO he told me that I SHOULD NOT feel that way. This was foreign and confusing for me as someone used to owning her feelings.
Exactly. You know what you are feeling, for gosh sakes. My xH used to do that to me all the time. I'd say "x, y, z," and he'd say, "you shouldn't feel that way because of a, b, c." Well, should or shouldn't it was the WAY I FELT, DARN IT!!
So I'd argue about why I felt x, y, z... and you know the drill.
Power struggle. Control.
Believe me, it is a very passive form of manipulation. **I** was the one left holding the bag because I felt x, y, z. He would claim powerlessness because I was feeling x, y, z... (which, according to him, I should not have been feeling)... I'd get into the fray when I'd try to explain WHY I was feeling a certain way (rising to take the bait)... rather than letting it be his problem that I did not live by his particular book of What Should Be.
