Choc, this might ~ be where the church MC is coming from. It's typical/common.
Also I am not promoting any one form of religious system/belief here.
a page from the manual: Role Reversals from , “Strike the Original Match” by Chuck Swindoll.
........ after marriage a strange reversal in their roles occurs. The young bride marries with disappointment over the violation done against her by her fiancé. She soon becomes dominant and aggressive, taking the role of leadership from her husband because of a mixture of resentment and anger.
And the man? Well, he feels, guilty, disappointed with himself, and ultimately becomes passive.
She takes charge (and hates it) while be backs off (and feels miserable). All because their intimate relationship was incorrectly set in motion before marriage.
Of the hundreds of unhappy couples I have counseled who finally admitted to premarital promiscuity, I can hardly recall an exception to this strange pattern.
I personally fail to see this as a male only problem in many pre-marriage relationships. young bride marries with disappointment over the violation done against her by her fiancé.
The way I see things, it can be something (sex or PG) the woman wanted. I would have liked the no sex statement before M to have been a bit more practical and have contained the ides that some couples have such a good time enjoying sex, they over look the other areas of a long term R that will cause them to stumble or lose interest in each other.
This carries out too in the area of helping LT married couples to see the short comings of the earlier M and see that maybe what they thought as love was lust type sex, but it's time to add things to the R and grow as a couple.
It is as important for people to know that losing that "in love feeling" that a sexual R can influence and not feeling it later in the R, isn't about falling out of love (i don't like him/her any more) and mentally work through that issue because one person doesn't feel something, it doesn't mean the same thing as falling out of love.
This idea would help some LTR couples get over the idea that if one does not feel something sexual for their partner, they shouldn't have to be sexual with their mate because they don't feel like having sex. (maybe something like HD's case)
Another page from the manual: What We Really Want "Wild at Heart" by John Eldredge)
Every man wants: 1. A battle to fight - life requires a man to be fierce and fiercely devoted. 2. An adventure to live - God is wild, dangerous, unfettered, and free; He designed men to carry His likeness. 3. A beauty to rescue - a man needs someone to fight for; nothing is so inspiring to a man as a beautiful woman; she'll make him charge the castle, slay the giant, hit the homerun. Pro\ 28:1 NIV
The wicked man flees, though no one pursues, but the righteous are as bold as a lion.
Every woman wants: 1. To be fought for - she wants to be wanted, pursued, cherished. 2. An adventure to share - she knows she is not the adventure. She wants to be strong and part of an adventure led by her man. 3. To have a beauty to unveil - as a little girl, she longs to capture her daddy's delight; she yearns not t be seen as a "tireless worker" but as the "captivating woman" of a fierce adventurer. Song of Solomon 2:8-13 NIV
Listen! My lover! Look! Here he comes, leaping across the mountains, bounding over the hills. My lover is like a gazelle or a young stag. Look! There he stands behind our wall, gazing through the windows, peering through the lattice. My lover spoke and said to me, "Arise, my darling, my beautiful one, and come with me. See! The winter is past; the rains are over and gone. Flowers appear on the earth, the season of singing has come, the cooing of doves is heard in our land. The fig tree forms its early fruit; the blossoming vines spread their fragrance. Arise, come, my darling; my beautiful one, come with me."
Some of these ideas go along with some of the books we discussed.
yes but this is where it helps if people get comfortable admitting to therapy. We all know that EVERYONE gets a haircut, car repaired, goes to the doctor, etc. Our friends and acquaintances talk freely about their great mechanic, doctor, hair stylist, alma mater, etc. Therapy somehow feels different and it shouldn't.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Mrs NOP I bet this is based on the assumption that good girls don't "put out" without pressure and that premarital sexual activity is always instigated by men. Bad assumption.
Oh grasshopper. you are partly right but in a the man is the leader world it implies men, don't be tempted to let some hot pu$$y/sex/and your chemical based in love feelings" run ahead of what you need to sustain a life long M.
It is also put in terms, more in line with leadership teachings that we have all heard before, the cruder version; "Men don't let your d!ck run your life" " some times when you play, you pay"
In some more modest terms it's meant to be practical advice to men, treat your partner with royalty like regard, as if you didn't realize she was so valuable.
I think something similar (shame based teachings of some religions)to this or attitude wise, causes some of the Madonna - wh0re problems, or causes people similar to Mr. HP to have hang ups. I certanially had and have my hang-ups I am working through. Throw in some female medical problems and I begin to think, why try some times. But I don't stay there long.
Those spouses who don't want to be told what to do by others and those spouses who don't want strangers knowing their "business". I will add, We have to appear to be good people that have their stuff together and if we go to C, we are admitting flaws.
just about every HD woman here has expressed the desire for their husbands to "top their top" sexually I will say, before I read this forum, that is one thing I never would have thought much about.
Like so many other males with LD W's mostly what we spend time thinking about is how to hold back very many thoughts about topping our W's top because our perceived W’s top is so low, if we went for desired top, we would get shut out of the marital sexual arena.
I can see for me, always thinking about flying low and feeling like I have been grounded,(based on my W's low top) leads to some depressive thoughts and actions, which leads to losing my leadership traits. I can see that isn't very manly.
What I say to people is, if you had a bad haircut, would you NEVER get your hair cut again? If a mechanic messed up your car, would you never again take your car to a mechanic? If a plumber didn't fix something right, would you simply revert to outdoor plumbing? If you had one not-so-good college professor, would you DROP OUT OF SCHOOL? You get the idea.... C's are professionals, and they're human. They're different. Find one you like.
well... I have "fixed" the mistakes of doctors, plumbers, mechanics, electricians, carpenters...(and probably a few others that escape me at the moment)...and I am none of those things. Seems that every time I pay someone to do something/fix something for me, I wind up having to un-do/re-do or fix it myself, anyway.
this is an example of how decent coping skills can end up backfiring. I thought that I had learned that I could handle things on my own
Given the load that you had managed to handle, it's understandable that you felt that you should just keep on doing so. People with a strong sense of responsibility often suffer from the demands that it makes.
Cac4, I learned to ask more questions before hand and take longer at inspecting the final product before singing off or saying good job. I work at my delivery and content when I speak to someone about what I feel is poor service or product. Number one, I doubt pre-delivery promises so much and in so many ways, it takes me a while before I decide to do some new things. Previous successes, no hesitantly most of the time.
If you are a conflict avoider similar to me, it is something that can be improved. Conflict doesn't always mean a good/bad situation is present.
cobra said he likes debates. I see their point but I also feel some/too much anxiety when in one.
What works for me is "trust and verify" it will get you to a place of more comfort.
The problem with therapy is that some people go into it as if they were going in to a combination magician/priest/the ideal parent they never had. When the transference kicks in (that is, when you start having feelings about your therapist that are similar to or the same as feelings you had for your parents), then if the therapist screws up, you feel that primal betrayal all over again. This won't usually happen in the first few sessions. All the more reason to make sure you are very comfortable with the therapist and have build up solid trust before you hand over the goods (as it were). Kind of like getting married...
Lou wrote
Quote:
Cac4, I learned to ask more questions before hand and take longer at inspecting the final product before singing off or saying good job. I work at my delivery and content when I speak to someone about what I feel is poor service or product.
You should take this approach with the C, too. If it's not working for you, speak up. For what you have to pay for it, I always like to make sure I'm getting my money's worth!
When the transference kicks in (that is, when you start having feelings about your therapist that are similar to or the same as feelings you had for your parents), then if the therapist screws up, you feel that primal betrayal all over again. This won't usually happen in the first few sessions. All the more reason to make sure you are very comfortable with the therapist and have build up solid trust before you hand over the goods (as it were). Kind of like getting married...
The bells always go off in my head when a person comes into therapy and lays out every horrible thing that has ever happened to them in the first session. I know the trust factor is all out of whack. They often tend to be Borderline Personalities as well. Display total trust and love for me and then proceed to hit me with the lighter shortly thereafter.
