It’s hard for me to see how you are not spewing anger.
Interesting. I can see I was being frustrated and somewhat of a smartazz but I don't necessarily equate that with anger. But maybe you are right.
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As a licensed therapist, I won’t hold you to any higher standards than any one else here. But I see no reason to hold you to anything less either.
With your training and knowledge, you knew all too well the consequences of engaging in an EA with Chrome. Chrome did not, or at least did not fully understand the ramifications of what he was doing, IMO
Sounds like you Are holding me to higher standards then. That's fine. Just to clarify (not that it really matters) but I do not practice marital/couples therapy. Maybe that will relieve some people's minds. Also, you really do not mean to say Chrome did not realize what he was doing? Seriously? I don't respect people who play dumb, especially when they are way more intelligent than the general population.
Thanks for your take Fearless and I apologize for polluting your thread with my own sh#t. And you are correct about my views on Nop, I tend to agree with him quite often. I think he is correct about the devastation of affairs. I just tend to disagree on his style. But like everyone else, he has a right to be who he is and I have a right to be who I am. I am not trying to cause waves. I am just sensitive to being judged. I am also still working on solidifying my M and recommitting the way I need to. I'm sure Nop sensed that and called me out on it. This has actually been very helpful to me, this whole exchange. I feel better about where my M needs to go so hooray for that.
I think that on an emotional level, Chrome was a child. I was also a child. My wife too. You know this. Emotional growth is halted at the time emotional trauma is experienced. Chrome grew intellectually, but all that did was to allow him to weave an adult defense and justification around his emotional child. That gave him the sense of adult entitlement to do what he did. Emotional ignorance. I never blame someone for ignorance. But once they know what they are doing, that excuse no longer cuts it.
I apologize for polluting your thread with my own sh#t.
No apology needed or wanted. It was a very useful exchange up to a point.
Everyone is free to talk about whatever they want on this thread and I am free to speak up IF I think it needs to be moved to a different thread. It is an open forum but each thread, I think can be monitored according to personal preference. Notice that I let this go on for awhile and was comfortable with it, it just reached the point where I did not want it to go on any longer and that is the precise moment I spoke up. It takes people awhile to get used to me but I am an open book in many ways and nobody needs to guess about my feelings.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I am just sensitive to being judged. I am also still working on solidifying my M and recommitting the way I need to. I'm sure Nop sensed that and called me out on it. This has actually been very helpful to me, this whole exchange. I feel better about where my M needs to go so hooray for that.
Sometimes all we need to do is get out of our own way, eh? Try not to drop that Grail, honey, it can get a little heavy sometimes.
so true, so true No one could ever claim I'm not stubborn or even...maybe...just slightly... difficult to live with. Just ask my H! And he still loves me. So he is a keeper. I guess I'm a lot more lucky than I thought. Could LFL possibly be gaining even more insight??? Astounding.
These are absolutely serious comments and questions that I have for the two of you about this exchange. I am really trying to understand better how different personalities interact and how we learn.
My interpretation is that LFL has acknowledged that she does have continued issues to face and that this exchange did help her. My ASSUMPTION is that NOPkins may think that this justifies how he originally challenged LFL (and it may be justified so bear with me). For me I give LFL lots of credit for being able to take this rough turbulent exchange and being open to searching for truth even though it was uncomfortable and heated.
My question for LFL is whether she thinks, and I understand this is just her opinion because it would be impossible to know for sure, that she could have gotten the same lesson without the tension? If Nopkins had quoted her as originally done, but had instead posted something to the affect of "LFL I am not sure whether you are referring to me or not. However as someone who is knowledgeable, I wish to share the knowledge I have gained through hard earned work and think that I have a lot of offer. I do wonder if this approach can intimidate or irritate you because you have undone work or internal fears that are dredged up? Have you looked at yourself to understand why you react this way?"
Now, NOPkins, I am not at all suggesting that I think you need to change your style. If you are fine with it and have no interest in the people that are turned off by your approach and gain nothing from it, that is understandable. So first off, am I correct in assuming that this approach is conscious and purposeful? If so, what is your best guess is the success rate of this approach? Since I have not been on this forum long, I also assume that you know LFL well enough that you may have known that this approach would end up working because she in the end is willing to look at herself and willing to seek the truth?
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Hi, LFL.
Quote: -------------------------------------------------- That is why I cringe sometimes when I see people trying to follow someone's advice off of this baord as if it is going to be the Holy Grail of solutions. --------------------------------------------------
Names?
What are your fears?
-NOPkins-
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
My interpretation is that LFL has acknowledged that she does have continued issues to face and that this exchange did help her.
Absolutely.
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For me I give LFL lots of credit for being able to take this rough turbulent exchange and being open to searching for truth even though it was uncomfortable and heated.
Thanks for that.
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My question for LFL is whether she thinks, and I understand this is just her opinion because it would be impossible to know for sure, that she could have gotten the same lesson without the tension? If Nopkins had quoted her as originally done, but had instead posted something to the affect of "LFL I am not sure whether you are referring to me or not. However as someone who is knowledgeable, I wish to share the knowledge I have gained through hard earned work and think that I have a lot of offer. I do wonder if this approach can intimidate or irritate you because you have undone work or internal fears that are dredged up? Have you looked at yourself to understand why you react this way?"
Well, of course my first instinct is to say "yes, I would have responded to that much more empathic style." But who knows for sure? I think my H is very empathic and he probably tried for years to come at me "nicely" and it didn't work. He eventually left. I didn't "get it" and admit I am still working on really "getting it" fully. But with that said, I responded to Nop and instead of withdrawing like some people would, I confronted right back. Through that confrontation, I feel like I gained some insight. Same thing happened when my H left. It was hard to avoid at that point. He didn't say much but actions did the talking for him. I could choose to go through with the D if I wanted to but I small part of me respects him for what he did. He didn't put up with my crap anymore. Is that sick or healthy? Still trying to work that all out. The strong woman side of me is fighting with the "top my top" side of me. I also had a memory come back to me in the midst of my comments about "no one likes a know it all." Cobra will love this FOO stuff (lol). I remembered when I was about 18, I was dating someone who I ended up having a really rocky R with and I heard my Dad say to my Mom (in another room) that he did not like "that guy" because "he's a know it all." That was one of the few times I EVER heard my Dad comment on any R I ever had. So it had an impact I guess. Huh. More to think about.
NOP did what he did. LFL did what she did. The specific learning came out of the specific exchange.
From where did the tension come? NOP or LFL? It came from LFL, based on her feelings, perceptions, etc. She chose to interpret NOP in a certain way, and thus her actions followed suit.
So? Had she not done that... if we could not allow each other the freedom to get heated and personalize it (or not)... would we be able to see ourselves?
I have to say, I'm a bit confused as to what it is you want to know, here. I think you are doing quite a bit of assuming yourself.
For example, think back to a few pages ago when I jumped into your convo to defend Cobra. I did so based on my own interpretations and assumptions. It left most of you in the thread a bit confused. So... are you supposed to change Who You Are and what you do so I don't misinterpret or assume? No, for it was my problem, not yours. You all were gracious to me when I explained myself... but I was the one who was having the problem, no one else.
