I think this is where I belong

[Cinderellaman]

Hi JBF !!! Same sort of day here ...sorry....

I actually don't DARE ask how much H likes/loves OW....I think I'm afraid of the answer...and also even if he were to say he adores her...he's in MLC, how can there be actual truth to me in what he says...it's only his truth in MCL-land.....that's all.

I hope our day gets better, I will pray for you and send you some peace if I can ok ?! Sorry to hear you're feeling this horrible panic too....it kills us doens't it ?!

BUT WE WILL BE FINE........we MUST believe that we will be fine !!!! PATIENCE..........

[justbestfriends]

Thanks Cinders. Hope your day is improving.

I'm feeling pretty annoyed at the moment. Have had a couple of texts from W again trying to change the ground rules re: when she sees D and where she takes her. She just doesn't seem to listen to what I say to her about it and keeps coming back and saying the same things. I might as well be speaking Chinese to her. It feels like I'm dealing with a teenager.

[LoginName]

JBF,
Maybe the new job, and the greater distance, would help your W understand and live with the boundaries you are setting for your D. It really does seem that she's a teenager; selfish, or rather self centered - unable to see things from others point of view.

Does anger help you deal with the panic? Anger can be useful, I think, if it's channeled correctly.

Patience is the key word. That, and detach. Of the many key words two of them are.... nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Thanks for your support JBF, and really hoping today is a better one.

[LoginName]

Cinders,
I made the mistake of pushing a little bit last night about the OP. Of course my W still loves him. Not listening to some rather brilliant advice I gave JBF a while ago, I of course feel totally inadequate. Obviously the OM is better, faster, stronger, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, and can make my W happy while I can't. Of course that's BS too.

I think you are right not to ask your H about the OW. His answer wouldn't change anything and would just make you sad.

That panic can come out of nowhere, and can really knock you off your feet. But I'm always surprised that I keep going anyway - we all do. It can't beat us. It hasn't yet. Life goes on.

And I too believe. I have faith. I KNOW that I will be happy again, and that you and everyone else will be too. Patience. There are moments of happiness now, on this board, in 'real' life. Unless there is clinical depression, or other medical problems (and those can be treated) there is no reason why we will not overcome all of this crap.

[Grace_O]

jbf,

No experience with the OP thing, but just keep in mind that if your W is breathing when she talks to you, she may be lying. Chances sre she doesn't know how she feels herself. I know this doesn't make you feel any better. I'm sorry.

IMO too bad if she's annoyed that you and your D have things you do on Sautrday. Your D should keep to a routine as much as possible. This helps us all cope, let alone kids. Your W walked away, she just doen't get to have everything she wants when she wants it.

I know your hurting. Make today a good one though. You can.

HUGS

[LoginName]

JBF,
I think Pete's W has an OM she claims not to love. I think many of the other's sitches I've read have something similar. I don't understand it at all. The whole "love" thing has me totally confused. I used to think I knew a little about love. Now I don't even know if the word has meaning.

My W loves the OM, although I'm pretty sure the A is over and she has no contact with him. So my W seems to be more of the exception. I think that even if our spouses 'love' the OP, it doesn't mean that they won't love us too, or again, or that our M/R can't be saved. As you may remember, and I'm always very embarrassed to remind anyone of this, but I had an A too. I could have loved the OW. I was starting too (which scared me into ending the A). I still have fond memories of her, and feel bad for hurting her. I'm sure my wife will always have fond memories of her OM.

Ah Ha! Maybe a key here is feelings of jealousy and not so much about love! Maybe love is unconditional and can get over infidelity. Maybe we shouldn't feel bad if our WAS loves the OP, or not. Maybe we should work on our jealousy instead.

My W said she knows I love her. How does she know that and what does it mean? I think I do love her, but why? You still feel for your W, after everything that's happened. I wish we were simpler animals.

Love. Thinking out load for a bit.... I think there is the chemical addiction type of love that is mainly infatuation. Then that can change into another type of chemical/hormonal addiction as well. Evolutions plan to get us to procreate and then to stay with the young long enough to ensure their survival. Then those hormones and chemicals subside. Relationship, long term R, maybe involves needs and meeting those needs. A strong need in humans is for intimacy. If the R goes the right direction, and if the people involved are lucky, they achieve a high level of intimacy. This satisfies our human need.

But most people, including myself, believe that love is something special and different. That either you feel it or you don't. That it can't be manufactured.

OK, I'm totally confused and am going to go back to my lab and do some further research. I don't know what I'm talking about.

Back to you, JBF,
I think your W is an MLCer, and she's going on a wild ride. I hope you can detach enough so that she doesn't take you on all the downs and ups (the ups can be scary too). I still see and hear a lot of strength in you, despite the occasional panic. Maybe we need to develope skills to cope with those panic episodes. Meditation is good. I've a voodoo doll I used to use. I've beaten the inside of my car until my arm and fists hurt. What do you do? I've got a small set of weights that my son and I use. Physical excersise definately helps. Writing here helps too.

I think know a good qoute from Churchill and the early years of the war would be appropriate. I'll try to google some . THis is all I could find quickly.
It is a mistake to try to look too far ahead. The chain of destiny can only be grasped one link at a time.
Sir Winston Churchill
It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.
Sir Winston Churchill

[justbestfriends]

Feel better today. Thanks guys for your suport.

Really glad not to have that panic feeling today. For me that's the worst rollercoaster emotion of the lot. Since W moved out I actually haven't felt it that often, so maybe I'm lucky. While she was home and seeing OM it was a permanent fixture.

I deal with the panic as best I can by breathing exercises, trying to get some fresh air and searching out people to talk to or who make me laugh. As for my anger, I punched a wall but it REALLY hurt so now I use a pillow. I also have a photo of my W and I call it all the names under the sun!

I stood my ground with W over arrangements with D and she sent back a more positive text in the evening. It does help things when I stand up to her a bit. Pre Bomb our relationship was quite evenly matched on the whole but I was so scared of completely losing her post Bomb that I completely let her get her own way. Now she's seeing that I'm strong again which is good.

Interesting talk with my mum last night. She was innocently talking about how W was with D on Wednesday night. She said it was like W was trying to be D's friend. She didn't try to manage D's behaviour at all, letting her get away with things she wouldn't normally. In fact they pretended that D was the mummy and W was the child for over an hour!

I can understand why she would want to give in to D when she's not seeing much of her, but I remembered when my mum was talking that I'd read somewhere that MLCers will often try to be their children's buddy rather than parent. Am I imagining that?

I'm also wondering whether W's renewed interest in D isn't any kind of reconnection at all, as she's still in replay with OM, but rather D is her latest drug of choice.

Any ideas from MLC experts?

[Cinderellaman]

HI JBF,

Not an expert, but I see my H becoming one of the kids all the time too...he loves them to bits, and he's never been very 'grown up' with them, because he loves to play with them; but now he's either really being a kid with them himself or he's really strict with them...I often wonder if that's good because sometimes the strictness starts as soon as he sees them and the kids never know what to expect !

About reconnecting...I'm not sure, they do say that reconnection starts with the kids..how long are you post bomb ?

[LoginName]

Good to hear you're feeling better today. So am I. Every little bit helps. We know that panic will hit again someday, but we'll be able to weather it and move on.

In my W's case, I think there is so much guilt about leaving the kids that she tries too hard sometimes to make up for it. Maybe that's part of it too.

Keep to your guns, JBF, protect your boundaries, without being cruel.

Hope you have a good weekend. Stay strong friend.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

MLCer's, it seems to me need to be liked by their children or completely ignore them.

What better way to be liked than to be the 'fun' parent?

I read that somewhere too.

Reconnecting (I believe) is when she starts acting like a responsible parent, loving her children, without seeking out the children's approval.

If parent's needed their children's approval, this world would serve candy for dinner.

(smile) no offense, but nothing is innocent when your mother talks to you about your MLC wife. Your mom ultimately doesn't want you to suffer at the hands of someone. Be cautious understand your mother's motives as well.