Lin pretty much answered your questions for you. However, I would like a little more detail on why you were overly talkative to your husband about work issues. Why are you doing this? For some close contact? He just might see through that...don't try and over-compensate the work issues for personal reasons.
Being "chatty" does not allow you to focus on "you" and all of the issues you need to work on about yourself. It prevents you from delving into solving the problems within yourself.
As far as what to do when he comes back...he won't be back until he sees a change in you on a consistent basis. That is why you must put your heart and soul into changing and learning about yourself - every nice and horrible thing that makes you so needy. Sit back, relax and find yourself...go out with friends, join a club with interests you like. Try not to focus on "him". He is doing fine...with her.
On your issues about the car, yard, toilet...get out the yellow pages and call someone to fix them, then write a check. Show your husband you can stand on your own two legs. Stop leaning on him for everything. You see, what worked before, just may be part of the problem...be more self-sufficient. The toilet stops working - call a plumber...the car needs new brakes - then drive it to a brake repair shop. Continue paying the bills. If he cut the grass - hire a lawn service. In other words, you run and repair the house you live in - your husband doesn't live there anymore. If he would pass away suddenly, God forbid, you would need to do these things on your own. You are alone, now, start doing what you need to do. He chose not to live there, so you handle the problems. Don't present him the bills, I would assume you still have a joint account, write a check from that.
What Lin said: You are not a couple now, nor do you both reside together...you are single, think single. He has detached from you - now do the same...detach from him. Get your personality back...get your own identity...stop living through him. You are both two individuals, not one...but, you have "lost" yourself by being his wife...you put him way above your own self-worth. You gave him the power that belonged within you...you never, ever give that to anyone. That power makes you...you.
He left work probably because he knows you're upset, yes, he cares, but right now - he cares more for her. That is why you need to get a grip and be that independent, self-worthy, vibrant, self assured woman that you are...or should be. If I recall, you are 36 years old? Old enough to live by yourself and fix the daily household problems. Show him you are able to function without him.
One more thing - do not talk him to death about work issues. It seems "forced". If he continues to leave without saying goodbye then, so be it...he looks silly. Worry more about you...less on him. He won't come back until he has solid proof that you have drastically changed your personality. BUT, if you pursue him anymore, you will push him into terminating the marriage.
Now, get some sleep, think good thoughts, your trip to Vegas and which friend you'll invite...then sleep. Don't stress over this anymore, it does show and he will know...it only makes you look pitiful and pathetic...that isn't "who you are", is it?
I meant to add that also....when my H left I had no choice but to take care of things....I had to move me and the kids out of my parents home...without his help....I had to box up all of his things and put in to storage...when I did find him or he called I can't recall which happened...I did make him come down and put the storage in his name so if he didn't pay it was his stuff to get lost...not mine...I also made him put his phone in his name....and the home phone in my name, remove his name from it...I went and had his name removed from my car....I started taking care of ME!!!
Believe me I suprised him because he thought I was totally dependent on him and that I would just stay at my parents and be miserable...I didn't do that...I got training, got a job, got my two adult daughters jobs, found us an apartment, and moved out on our own...
Honey, you can and will do this...you don't live for him....and believe it or not your happiness isn't dependent upon him....because think about your life before him...you had friends, you were happy, you had a life....and you will again...and you know what???...this just might be what snaps his head back to see what you are doing....right now OW can present that to him....
my H told me that the OW was supportive and blah blah blah...I told him that is because she hasn't been through anything with him of course she can be supportive...it has all been fun and games....but let things get stressed and strained and then tell me she meekly follows at your feet!!!
So...Tomorrow is a new day....you are going to put on a smile, look pretty, and start making plans for the rest of your life...oh BTW...if you have Jiffy Lube near you they will change your oil and then for the next 3 months/3000 miles you can take your car in anytime and they will check the fluids and add as needed for no charge!!!....H will take note when you tell him that you already took care of your oil changes....
I want to hear positive things....what you have done, what you plan to do....and start calling some friends or going out to meet new friends....tell us all about YOUR NEW AND WONDERFUL LIFE.....live it and you will believe it!!!
Once again, you guys are so awesome. Thank you for another wonderful day of keeping me "in check."
Sorry that I'm checking in so late today. I went to the doctor this morning, and I totally lost it while I was there... It's really the first time I've talked to ANYONE about this in person. However, I did NOT even tell him what was going on as far as OW, etc. I just told him I was having some serious marital problems and needed something to help my nerves, etc. So, I am happy to report that Xanax is my new friend! He gave me three new medications to help get me "back in the saddle." Boy, was I grateful. 1210, I did NOT cry last night, but I did as soon as I got up this morning and couldn't stop! I cried on my way to the doctor's appointment, at the doctor's appointment, after the doctor's appointment... Then I got the Xanax and - poof - twilight zone! I know, that's not a great place to be all the time, but it helped me so much today. It just dulled the pain. I still feel horrible inside, but it just wasn't affecting me physically as much, which helped. So he gave me something else to help me sleep better and then a third thing for a more long-term anxiety stabilizer, as the Xanax is just for "crisis-mode" that I'm going through right now. I was really anxious about going in to the doctor (it's so hard for me to admit that I need help - part of my "control" issues). That's probably why I was so upset this morning and crying so much. But now I'm so glad that I did. And I didn't have to tell him exactly what was going on, which I just really did not want to do, so that was good.
At any rate, I ended up having to take the Xanax twice today, as I got weepy again this afternoon. I am now exhausted, as it made me really tired, but that's probably what I need for now. As I said, I know this is no long-term fix, but the state I was in - it just wasn't a good thing, and it was making it so incredibly hard to focus on the task at hand - to work on becoming a better me...
He also suggested that I get therapy, and I wanted to ask you guys your thoughts on this. He said he thought I should see an individual therapist to help with just verifying any "boundaries" that I need to set for "whatever it is that I'm going through," etc. He gave me a recommendation for a therapist, and I spoke with her this evening. She doesn't do actual "marital therapy" per se; she more does individual counseling but does deal with relationship issues and anxiety issues mainly. I'm just not sure if it would be better for me to still see a marital therapist but obviously just go by myself? What do you guys think? I know I need to work on some individual things with me, but I also want some expert advice on then applying what I'm learning toward fixing my marriage. Do you think I would be better served by talking to a DB coach? I just don't know...
Lin, thank you for patiently answering all of my rambling questions. You know, it was funny that you said at the end to not ask the same questions again, as when I was typing some of my questions yesterday, I thought to myself "you know, I'm doing the SAME THING on this board - I'm asking questions again and again in different ways because I'm so desperate to get confirmation and reassurance, etc." I'm just not good at accepting what is said and letting it go. I guess that's part of the whole self-confidence issue? Anyway, I AM up for the challenge of not asking questions again that you've already answered, and I will work on that. However, please keep in mind the fragile state that I'm working myself through right now and try to think back to how it felt to be there... To that end, if you are able to keep encouraging me without me asking for it and keep telling me that I CAN do this and that I CAN SAVE MY MARRIAGE, that really helps me so much, as long as you genuinely mean it when you are saying it.
So, as far as the taking care of our own personal things now, I'm up for that. I will take care of the household things that need to be done - car, any repairs, lawn, etc. I am kind of feeling funny about the finances, though. It just feels weird to be going on with life as if nothing has changed, if that makes sense? On the one hand, I don't want to separate bank accounts and each have our own money and that sort of thing, but is that what I need to do at this point? It's hard because I do handle all of the banking - both for the business and our personal accounts - and it would be logistically a bit odd to change that, but I suppose I could suggest that he get his own separate bank account, and I could just give him some money from the business? But then how do I figure out how much? And if I do that, it hurts me to even think about it, because I feel like I'm starting to work towards us officially separating, and I don't want that... I don't know. Thoughts? It just feels weird to have him decide he wants to lead this separate life with her but then still have everything connected to me. Does that make sense?
In the same regard, what about our home? I got some advice from someone else on this board that I should pack up the rest of his things and tell him to officially move out. At this point, he's just simply packed a bag of clothes and his toiletries - as if he's on "vacation" or something. EVERYTHING else he owns is still at home, and he has A TON OF STUFF!!! Is it right for him to be staying with OW and still have the freedom to come home whenever he wants and have me just "keep all of his stuff" here? Again, I don't WANT to ask him to leave, but at the same time, is it right for him to be doing this and not officially move out and deal with those consequences? Am I making this too easy for him? Or do I just don't do/say anything and just let it be?
I guess what this boils down to is that, as Lin suggested, if I do need to respect his feelings and his decision right now to be with OW, then does that mean he needs to pay the piper and make his decision more "official" by separating finances, moving ALL of his stuff out, etc.? Believe me, that's not what I want, and I certainly don't want to do anything to scare him away and make him make a "FINAL" decision to end our marriage because I've now made him angry. But I'm listening to what you're telling me to do, which is to detach and separate from him. So why should he still be able to then keep his stuff at home and have me take care of his finances? I don't know. Tell me what you think. I just don't want to do anything to push him out the door...
I've also been thinking more and more about the business. You haven't told me what you guys think about whether you feel like I'm being manipulative/selfish/whatever in my feelings that I don't feel like I want to stay in the business with him if we're not going to be a couple. At this point, my feelings haven't changed about that. I still feel all of the same things that I've already shared with you. We built this business based on reaching shared goals and dreams. If those dreams are shattered for me, yes, I'll have to make new ones, but I feel like I want to just start fresh. I don't want to have to look at a house that we bought together anymore. It just hurts too much. But he told me during our talk the other day that it really hurt him when I had told him in our trip that I didn't know if I wanted to contribute what I brought to our business so that he could share that success with someone else. He said that really bothered him. When I had said that to him at the time, he had come back with something like that he just wanted me to be happy and that I could build new dreams and goals. I honestly didn't mean to hurt him, and I feel bad about that, but at the same time, I guess maybe he doesn't see my point of view since he has someone else now and doesn't feel the intense sense of loss that I do. I don't know. He got tears in his eyes the other day when he told me what a great team we make (as business partners). I know he doesn't want to lose that, and I love how we work together as well and all that we've accomplished. But it just hurts so much, and I feel like I want to share this business with my H, and if that's no longer him, then maybe I just want to start over again by myself for now... But tell me from the outside looking in - would this just be a ploy to try to get him to give me another chance? Is it selfish? I don't want to be that way, and I want him to be successful - I really do. And I know it would set us both back a long, long ways to sell all we've acquired and split it and start over. But I just don't think I want to be in this with him if we're not together. It just hurts too much. I don't feel like I EVER would want to know about what he does with her or have her at our houses or projects or have to see her - it makes me sick to even think about it. And if we stayed business partners, that would be inevitable in time. I just don't want to make someone else happy who played a part in breaking up my marriage, but I don't want to punish him - I guess I just want him to have to rebuild his own happiness with her, if that's what he chooses. I'm having to rebuild my life and make some changes, so maybe if he's going to take the easy way out and end our marriage he should have to do the same and build a new life for himself without me in it...
So I want your honest feedback on this issue - please let me know if you think I'm way out of line here with how I'm feeling. But if I do continue to feel this way about our business and you don't think I'm wrong/crazy for feeling that way, are you sure that I don't need to say something to him at this point that if we aren't able to reconcile down the line that at this point my feeling is that I won't want to continue the business so that if he wants to handle things differently now we can? I don't want to be unfair to him.
Gosh, I'm exhausted, guys (which is probably a good thing). I know I still have some things I want to respond to that you said, so I'll write more tomorrow. 1210, real quick, you asked about why I felt the need to talk him to death about the business. It's just because I guess I thrive on any sort of contact I can have with him, and I prolong it so that I can just talk to him. I know that's not a good thing to be doing right now, so I'm going to work on that.
Oh, real quick, I should give you an update of how my interactions went with H today. He called this morning when I was at the doctor and left two messages about business items. I didn't feel like talking to him after the doctor, so I didn't call him back for about 3 hours. We played phone tag for several hours and then finally talked for maybe 15 minutes about business stuff. I had to call him maybe two more times after that for quick business things, and then that was it. I didn't see him today at all. Kind of a depressing day, but I'm guessing you're going to tell me that it was good that we didn't have much contact, right?
No positive baby step signs from him yet. I can only hope that as I work towards getting back in the saddle again things will start to improve - slowly. I also can only hope that as he gets more "settled in" with OW that maybe the newness will start to wear off there and it won't be so appealing to him anymore.
Anyway, enough of a marathon post for tonight. As always, thanks for the wonderful advice again. I am happy to report that I have not asked about the OW or our R since our bad conversation on Friday! However, I have talked about future plans for the business, and that's probably not a good thing, especially since at this point my heart is telling me that I don't want a future business with him if this doesn't work out with our R. Again, 1210, it's just me trying to somehow find a way to stay close to him. But if I talk about the future of the business, I'm now giving HIM false hope in that he may think that I've decided to stay in business with him regardless of what happens with our R...
Got to get to bed now! I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts... THANK YOU!!!
Okay....great news that you went to the doctor and the edge is being taken off...
Yes I remember those days of dispair...I am a patient person now...remember NEW ME!...
Okay...if you feel comfortable with the finances being shared right now and you keep track to make sure he isn't shifting any money around...then fine, leave it....
As for his stuff in the house...I would just say leave it...makes it easier for him to feel like he has a "home" to return to...does that make sense?
I did keep all my H's things....when I moved I did box up things and put them in storage but other then that...I would just leave his stuff where it is (as long as it isn't in your way)
You do want to keep the road home smoothly paved....basically don't ASK him to make a decision on anything with YOU...travel, your personal business, your feelings, the OW, or anything about him personally....keep it all business....show him how strong you can be....and how independent you can be...show him you can/will change....that you will become the wife that he can discuss things with and not end up in a debate...
My H always let me have my way and I thought it was because he agreed or wanted me to have it that way...now he tells me it was because he didn't want the confrontation with me....but eventually this added to his internal unhappiness...this might be where your H is...he may not be able to verbalize this to you but in time with you NOT questioning everything he does...he will see a NEW YOU...one that he may want to be with...
As for the business...if/when he makes a FINAL decision with his life....i.e. he divorces you and truly moves on in his personal life without you....then you can make the final cut for yourself...if it doesn't happen then you haven't created a fuss about nothing...for now you are still his wife....still benefit from the financial part of the business....so let it be...it can always be dealt with later...not like you have to make that decision NOW...be PATIENT PATIENT PATIENT!!!
You CAN do this...your actions WILL change his reactions....YOU can have the power...YOU can make the difference!!!
You hit REPLY...then look at the boxes above the text box and see the " marks....click on that and then you see the words quote and /quote each in brackets...type in between these two bracketed quote's. Then what ever is in there it will be in the box like
Thanks for the post. Still not doing well today. Had to take some Xanax already when I first got up. I hope each day will be easier. I did get a little bit better night's sleep last night with all of the medicine in me, so that was good.
Okay. I will leave the finances and home stuff as-is for now so that he'll still feel comfortable coming home. As long as you're sure that I'm not making it too easy on him...
I agree with you that H may agree with me because he doesn't want a confrontation. He hates the debates we get into, and he says I always "win" anyway, so why should he try? So I think you're absolutely right.
I'll just let things be for now then with the business as well. It feel really awkward, but hopefully that will get easier with time.
I saw H this morning for two seconds just when I walked in the door to the office. He was on the phone, so I just walked past him (no eye contact from him) and went up to my office. I went down about 10 minutes later to tell him about a phone call I received from a resident, and he was gone! He left again without even saying goodbye... Why does he keep doing that? I know it seems silly, but it just hurts. If we're working on just being "friends" for now, can't he at least be courteous to me? I don't know...
I called and left a message for him to tell him I needed to tell him something about a resident. He called me back maybe 10 minutes later or so, and he told me where he was and asked what I needed. I told him, and he said he'd take care of it, and we ended the conversation. Short and sweet.
I just don't see any progress yet. I know it's only been a few days and that I so need to work on being patient... Inside, I'm still in a million pieces and just don't feel like going on like this anymore. But I don't have a choice. I don't want to end our marriage, so my only choice is to hang on and hope to be able to turn him around in time.
I so want to talk to him about our R and know I can't. I just want some bit of reassurance that there is still hope for us - anything to hold onto. But I know I can't do that, and I know that even if I did, I can't place any weight on what he would say anyway since he keeps going back and forth on what he tells me.
Just feeling down and blue again today with no interest in anything. Just feel like crawling in bed and not getting out. But still have so much work to get caught up on...
I can only hope that as I get back into GALing my mood will improve and that when he starts seeing changes in me I'll see some baby steps from him that will give me hope again.
You didn't say what you thought about the counseling... Let me know.
As always, thank you so very much for your support.
So I talked to H on the phone a little while ago, and he said he was just finishing up with something over at the job site and wondered if I wanted him to bring me lunch. That was nice of him. I said sure, and he brought us some lunch, and we chit-chatted over lunch and then went over a few business items. I was sure to be upbeat and friendly and tried not to overtalk the business items.
Then, he just left again without saying goodbye again! That's driving me crazy! I know he doesn't OWE it to me to say goodbye when he leaves or to tell me where he's going or what he's doing. He already told me during our talk the other day that he wasn't going to tell me what he was doing, etc., but I was presuming that he was just referring to being with the OW, etc. Why he can't be kind enough to simply say goodbye when he leaves is beyond me. I understood when he left the other night because I figured he was going over there and he didn't want to hurt me possibly. But during the day when we're working? It just hurts...
Still having a hard day today but haven't had to take any more medicine yet. I'm hanging in there...
Okay....your OBSESSING!!!...really, does it matter if he says good bye...he is excercising control over his life....he doesn't OWE it you to say good bye and he is showing you in his passive/agreesive manner...he doesn't want to say good bye because he doesn't want to create an opportunity for you to jump in with your questions....
Yes, counseling would be a good idea...I think I mentioned before that I went to a counselor on my own a few times...it helped me to set my focus on what I needed to do...she encouraged me to keep seeking my new career...she encouraged me to get out and walk...to do things for me...
You need to take control of YOU...stop feeling hurt and sad when he doesn't say good bye...instead just think "I have the office to myself...I can sing out loud if I want."...or whatever you can think of on a positive note about being alone in the office....believe it or not YOUR H DOES NOT MAKE YOU HAPPY...you have to CHOOSE to be happy...don't give him that control...
Also...I noticed that when you took the call and needed to tell him something you left a message for him to call you...a little bit of control issue peeking out....from now on just leave the message with him and if there is something you need to do he can let you know....and then DON'T call him...by doing like you did you created an opportunity to have him call you...where if you do the way I suggest you leave him the option of not calling and if he does it is because he needs something from you...see???
Okay...this will help too...take a 5 minute walk each day or when your stressed....deep breath and focus on the wind, birds singing, the pretty flowers....something other then you and H...I did this a lot...sort of free meditation...not over thinking but relaxing your mind on something calming...this will help with the emotions...it did wonders for me...
That was a baby step for your H to bring you lunch...don't expect it to happen again....if you have no expectation you have no dissappointments....don't look for baby steps to happen...I can tell you that in my situation I didn't see a baby step for at least a year....
Let it all go...work on you, focus on you, become happy for YOU....and did you ask about the DHEA...it did wonders for making me just feel much better....you can give it a try and see if works for you like it did for me...
He gave me three new medications to help get me "back in the saddle." Boy, was I grateful. 1210, I did NOT cry last night, but I did as soon as I got up this morning and couldn't stop! I cried on my way to the doctor's appointment, at the doctor's appointment, after the doctor's appointment... Then I got the Xanax and - poof - twilight zone! I know, that's not a great place to be all the time, but it helped me so much today. It just dulled the pain. I still feel horrible inside, but it just wasn't affecting me physically as much, which helped. So he gave me something else to help me sleep better and then a third thing for a more long-term anxiety stabilizer, as the Xanax is just for "crisis-mode" that I'm going through right now. I was really anxious about going in to the doctor (it's so hard for me to admit that I need help - part of my "control" issues). That's probably why I was so upset this morning and crying so much. But now I'm so glad that I did. And I didn't have to tell him exactly what was going on, which I just really did not want to do, so that was good.