Thanks for all of your responses...as you can see this is a complex situation. What you do not know is that I'm 41 and have been with my H since I was 16. He was really the only lover I ever had till I met the OM. He is 5 years older than me so I was the young HS girl dating the big man on campus. We've been married 20 years and have 3 children and a huge family/friend network. It makes it all the more difficult. I think I would have left 5 years ago if there weren't so many other people to hurt.
I think you are right that (1) I am in love with the OM and (2) I am very hardened inside against my H. Our problems started before we were even married and I have had doubts throughout our entire marriage because there really was never much spark/passion. But I was willing to accept that then because we were creating a life, family, home, etc. - you know the American dream, white picket fence and all that... All throughout I DID talk to him about what I was missing and what I was sad about and how I thought we should work more on making our relationship special. I saw him for YEARS tune me out so I felt irrelevant and unattractive...he never had much conversation for me and probably never once in our marriage said I looked beautiful or sexy or anything. Then we would go to events and he would be blabbing away with everyone else with a sparkle in his eyes, ignoring me, and then we would go home in silence...
I would tell him this hurt me and he would say he would change, and nothing ever happened. The problems got even worse as my career began to surpass his, so I have the upward mobile job with a lot of travel and responsibilities. He has a job where he works from home most of the time. I know this is very hard on him and over the years I have tried to draw out of him discussion about any of his thoughts on anything. His classic response over 20 years is "everything's fine." We probably at least 2 times per year would have the "talk" where I would tell him how hurt I was about certain things and he would say he was going to change. Then I tried a direct approach - for instance, when you are talking to someone and they start reading a magazine right in front of you - I could stop mid sentence and he would never even realize I stopped talking...this sort of thing REALLY HURTS.
I actually went through clinical depression 5 years ago. I went to a counselor and was on medication for depression. That is when I began taking control for myself of my life - and started to do other things for myself - running, exercising, changing the way I dress, reading, etc.... And my husband never ONCE in the entire 18 months even asked me how I was doing and feeling. So this REALLY hurt too...because he really seemed not to care at all. This is when I started really focusing on other people - friends, people I work with, my kids, etc. And basically started giving up totally on my relationship with my H was going no where. I need people who actually converse with me - and I am talking basic communications even, not the in-depth touchy feely stuff a lot of guys are uncomfortable with.
So when I met the OM, that is when I really started to change even more. It made me feel so HAPPY and ALIVE to actually have a guy be nice to me, tell me that I'm special, tell me that I'm hot, and TALK to me. Everything you say about that part of it is true - and I do realize that as long as he is in the picture, even if it is just an EA at this point, makes it harder with my husband....
However, to back up...when my A first started...it didn't really start as an A...it started as a one-night stand that became more and turned into a long-distance A. I truly did not think it would go on this long and did not even think I would ever see him again. So I DID try to change things with my H again...I didn't tell him about the A, but I tried to work on our sex life...we started having sex more often and I tried to change things, work on getting a spark back, make things more exciting, etc....but with sex, my H is not a "sexual" person...so if someone can't even TALK to you openly on daily topics, they certainly are gonna have a tough time physically opening up...so that actually bombed!! He ended up with performance anxiety and had trouble even making it happen, so I gave up on that aspect of the picture.
I also started doing more with my friends, joined a running group, etc. - all platonic stuff. I was very honest with him at this point and told him that since I wasn't getting what I needed out of our marriage, I was starting to turn to other people. There was even a hint in there that I was vulnerable to other men, so this should have been a clue to him...If he cared at all or wanted to work on our marriage at all, he should have really taken this as a huge wake up call. With the OM at this point, we were really just exchanging e-mails occassionally and maybe the phone call once a month, so it was not as if he was a constant presence at this point - I really thought of him as this fantasy memory that had happened and was not expecting it to continue.
With my H, I read the Divorce Busting books right in front of him, read the 5 love languages...highlighted passages...showed him places in the books to read...sent him a letter trying to explain what I was going through, etc. So he KNEW that I was hurting and contemplating why we were together. This was 3 years ago. I told him then that our marriage was a mess, I didn't think I could take it, and that I was seriously considering that we should get divorced. His response was "that's ridiculous, we're not getting divorced." But he never responded to my letter and never read any of the books. We did try doing more together - we took dance classes and went to lunch more and I had a little hope, but it was just activities and not a connection. We started doing much more with the kids - outdoor stuff, lots of activities, etc....so outwardly it all looks great and I think my husband felt like things must be a lot better for me...but there was still no spark. I basically feel like I am with a person whose eyes look dead when they look at me. We do all of these things - that I come up with - and he goes along with, but he never says much about any of it. If I try to engage him, I'll say - so did you like XYZ? He'll say - "yeah, it was fine." and stare out the window. I'll say - "so do you ever want to go to xxx again." He'll say - "sure, if you want to." So I get two-word sentences from him where he can't look me in the eye and then when we're with other people he'll blab on and on about all the stuff we're doing and how great everything is. So that ends up hurting me even more - because I see the life in his eyes with other people but never with me.
So the last time I actually talked to him about any of this was about 2-1/2 years ago - we went away for a weekend together and I laid everything out on the table. I read him word for word parts of books. I gave him specific examples of what I envisioned for our marriage, etc. I asked him..."what do you think I want in our marriage?" - he said - "I know what you want, you want a companion." I said, "NO...we have a DOG." I want someone to interact with and share things with and talk to and laugh with and have real FUN with...someone who I want to BE with because we appreciate each other and support each other and ENGAGE and CONNECT with each other." I told him that I get that from everyone else in my life, but NOT him.
So...anyways...after that weekend, we went back to our life, he never tried at all, nothing ever changed, he never attempted to work on talking to me and I basically have given up. I don't even think if I had told him about the OM, it would have made him want to change. I really think he thinks I am a pain in the ass and too much work and as long as I don't bug him or say anything, he is just not going to do anything. I think he really doesn't NEED any of the same things for himself, so he is fine with a complacent relationship. He basically just wants a simple life with no nagging and complaining where he can be home in peace and not have to try very hard. He really has NO DESIRE for a deeper relationship with me or anyone, so since he really has no need for that, I don't think he sees anything wrong with how things are. It is just too HARD for him...and I really don't think he loves me very much, but he doesn't really want to FEEL love that much.
Anyways, this is a good place to just ramble on about this stuff...while all of this has gone on, I still have the relationship with the OM. By the way, we do NOT talk about our marriages and problems, etc. He doesn't know my marriage is so bad...I don't want to burden him with that. And there is really no future for us - I know that. We just LIKE EACH OTHER...we have FUN in our talks, we laugh, we make each other happy! And if truth be known and I look at the description of what an EA is - I probably have EAs going with a dozen men!! I work in a very male dominated industry and I am surrounded by MANY men who make me laugh, talk to me, compliment me, and connect with me EVERY DAY! I have guys that I have very engaging conversations with all of the time - about work, family, their own dreams for the future, what they want to do when they retire, running, training, vacations, their kids, etc., etc... THOSE other guys (and of course, my girl friends/family, kids, etc.) give me something everyday that I have never gotten from my own husband!
Ophelia - read the ridiculously long other message I sent back to Theoden that talks about all of this...you can see from my message, that my husband has known for MANY MANY years of my unhappiness in our marriage. And yes, I do think that now he probably knows I have given up because it's been 2-1/2 years since our last big discussion about it, and you are right - I spend a lot of time apart from him. We spend PLENTY of time together with the kids doing all kinds of activities, vacations, etc. - the children keep us together...
I really don't think I'm ready to LEAVE my husband - I really am the textbook WAW if you read Michelle's letter, because I am that one who is now waiting it out...till the right time to leave. And when/if that does happen, I will remind him of all of the talks we had in the past...but if I leave it will not be for the/a OM, it will be for me. I just don't think I will be able to tell him about the OM because I don't want him to be hurt that much.
I know EVERYONE here is urging me to cut off contact with the OM. I just CAN'T do that right now...I understand ALL of the reasons why I should, but I can't bear to lose the friendship. I just think it is so unfair that I am supposed to lose someone who has meant SO MUCH to me, who I can EFFORTLESSLY connect with, a person who doesn't even have to TRY and just makes me HAPPY with a simple conversation? I am supposed to give that up for someone who I have struggled with for over 20 years!
It's funny that your H referred to himself as an actor! I feel like that all the time with my husband. I put a smile on my face, and a twinkle in my eye, and pretend like everything is great. But I don't talk much. I think of things that I would tell him about, and then I don't even say them because I think "why bother" all I'm going to get is an "oh that's nice" or "hmmmm...." or "whatever you want"....
Well - if anything, maybe someone who still has some hope left in their marriage can read some of this before it's too late, and take the signs seriously...and really do something about it now...
I know EVERYONE here is urging me to cut off contact with the OM. I just CAN'T do that right now...I understand ALL of the reasons why I should, but I can't bear to lose the friendship. I just think it is so unfair that I am supposed to lose someone who has meant SO MUCH to me, who I can EFFORTLESSLY connect with, a person who doesn't even have to TRY and just makes me HAPPY with a simple conversation? I am supposed to give that up for someone who I have struggled with for over 20 years!
It sounds like my wife. Her relationship with OM is effortless. He really sees her, he pushes ALL her buttons. And I'm trying sooooo....hard to meet some of those needs that he effortlessly is able to with her. But she's shutting me out. The OM is running rings arouns me without even trying. What have I done to change? I've apologized for my neglect. I've forgiven her for her EA. I've asked several male friends to hold me accountable to change. I've called old friends and done some soul-searching about my character flaws. I've been seeing a therapist to deal with my issues. I've started excercizing, I've been taking up hobbies, I'm "getting a life." I'm learning to be non-judgemental, I'm trying to humble myself. I'm taking my wife on regular date nights. I compliment her, I tell her she's hot and beautiful, I'm fighting off depression, I'm positive and exciting. I'm the one divorce busting. And you know what? She's not too interested.
So what you said about effortlessness really cut me to the heart.
So let me ask you a question. Why are you on this forum? Perhaps a glimmer of hope? Validation of your feelings? Permission to leave your husband.
Here's my deep thought. Telling him about the affair and the OM is really necessary. Why? It makes you lose control a bit. It makes you really vulnerable. It shows your shit. It removes your martyr status. Sounds like you like control. You want to end the marriage on YOUR TERMS, in YOUR TIME FRAME, with as little personal pain and fallout. That sounds like, in some way, you can't stand being vulnerable and honest and open, and yes *intimate* with your husband. Revealing your affair would suddenly put both of you on level ground. It gives him the option to end the marriage on his terms. It gives him some emotional leverage. And you don't want that.
Do you really want intimacy with someone? Intimacy means being, open, honest and vulnerable. You are refusing to be so with your husband. Your waiting for him to step up to the plate while you can be safe behind the deception. I think your affair and deception is the moral equivalent of your husband's non-responsiveness. I'm painting you both as culpable in the marriage. Neither of you has the moral high ground. You both fear REAL intimacy. You are not really opening up to him. Hiding the affair seems to be the bottleneck.
I'm also guessing that since you are not really telling the OM about your marriage problems, you are avoiding brutal honesty with him, too. You haven't told him you are in love with him and you haven't told him your marriage is in trouble. Why? Because that would make you too vulnerable. That might make him want to back off. You might lose control.
Yes? No? Am I on target.
I also think your husband might need some accountability for change. He may be despressed. He may suffer from low self-esteem. Perhaps he needs to go to therapy, maybe a marriage counselor for you both. It seems like he needs to get a life.
Want to make the marriage work? No guarantees, but try this:
1. Tell him about the affair.
2. Tell him you want it to work, but are seriously considering leaving him.
3. Tell him if he wants to keep you, he needs to deal with some of his issues. Suggest a therapist, perhaps marriage counseling.
4. If you have any church/spiritual connctions, I suggest speaking to a minister about your issues together.
Theoden - I'm sorry I make you sad. I know it's such a hard thing. I am so amazed by all of the things you've been doing to fix/improve your relationship. I wish you all the best - it seems like you so genuinely love your wife and want to make it work. I also admire how deep you are and how you can talk about all of the issues you talk about on this site. It is that kind of communication that I crave...I crave some kind of reaction at all from my husband. I have wanted that all along. One of my big fears is that he simply cannot even go there in terms of emotions, feelings, opinions, etc. He has NEVER been able to share and throwing it all out on the table and being open and spilling my guts...I've done that all along for years and years with no response. If I were to go a step further now and tell him about my affair, the OM, and all of my deepest, darkest secrets and feelings, I am afraid even then I'll get nothing from him...and then what? I don't know...
And you are SO RIGHT about me...I do want control and I want things on my terms...and right now I think I am just okay with the status quo, the easy way...I keep trying to figure out the right time to blow it all apart. Do I wait till after our next vacation that is already planned and paid for? Do I wait till after my son finishes high school? Etc....I am just so conscious every moment of the end result of screwing up everyone's lives that I'm just willing to hang here in a state of confusion...and justify it by saying to myself that I deserve to be in confusions and that my H really doesn't care about our relationship anyway, so what's the difference if we just keep things the way they are...
I think my H probably does suffer from depression and low self-esteem. He would never admit it though. He has made a couple of steps in the right direction for himself. I got him into starting some exercising and it is funny...I started this thinking it would improve our relationship, but it ended up hurting it more for me, because rather than him sharing his experiences with me, he ignores talking about me about it, but talks to other people and brags about what he is doing. And never talks to me...it is like I am nothing to him...
As for me and the OM, I think he really knows how I feel about him without the words. He senses things are wrong with my M, but we recognize that we have a friendship bond. I have thought many times about ending it, but I like his friendship too much. The reason the physical part of the A stopped is because of him, not wanting to risk his family. And I was going to end it then, when I realized we weren't going to see each other anymore, but something just draws us to each other - it is the friendship and connection we have. We don't have to get all mushy with "I love you" words...it just is what it is. My H has told me he loves me a million times, yet I don't feel it from him. The OM has never and will never say that to me, but he has told me that I am a very special person and that he values my friendship above anything. And that means more to me than a million fake I love yous. Because his relationship with me is a choice that he made because he likes me...he is not forced to be in a relationship with me because of an institution that was determined 20 years ago.
I am definitely listening to all you have said to me. It is all good advice and I will analyze it like I analyze everything...as for why I am on this forum? I think I am looking for someone to be in a similar situation...the problem is, on this forum, it seems like I'm the only one to have HAD an affair or to be wanting to leave the M. It seems like everyone on here is in the reverse situation - they are the ones who were hurt because the other person wanted to leave and now they are doing the divorce busting. I am the one who wants to leave and I am searching out some reason to stay - trying to figure out how I can possible come up with a sliver of love for my H. I wish I could find a woman who has been in my situation - someone who had an A or is having one, and had all but given up on her H, but somehow found a way to love him again...
I think we all cry inside everyday...but regardless of all of this, there are a lot of really happy times too.
I don't mean to sound critical... just some quick observations:
...it sounds like you are relying on OM for validation and feeling good about yourself. That seems kind of sad to me.
You write about your husband denying intimacy, but you are doing that. By hiding your feelings and not sharing your thoughts or "making waves" you are withholding intimacy. If your husband is depressed, perhaps antidepressants would help? And if not separation may!!! I know that sounds nutty, but your husband may be more unhappy in the marriage than you think and a separation may be painful for him in the beginning, but in time he may learn alot about himself, grow and become a better person (I know I did! In the long run it was a good thing!!!).
You might be right about OM not being affected by the emotional affair. From what I've read men usually compartmentalize relationships while women romanticize them.
But do you know for sure you're not harming OM and his marriage and family? If you do care about him perhaps you should consider discontinuing the relationship until all the kids in both families are grown. That way there is no chance of hurting the kids and creating a potential mess. Then, once they are all grown you (and OM if he's still interested) can figure out where you want to be.
You haven't ended the affair, for your marriage to work you can only built one house at a time, things will never work for you that way If your affair is so innocent put yourself in the shoes of the OM wife do you want that to be you? How do you know if your husband isn't having one on you? Get out of your fantasy world, because even if you do get together, if you to don't work on the issues within yourself the two of you will be here again If your husband is all that bad why did you marry him? Woman up get a divorce and try to make things work with you so-called true love. I bet you he won't do the same. you need to tell your husband about it all of it, and then face up to your actions if he leaves, deal if he stays do everything you can to fix it But this isn't what you wanted to hear; you want me to say that you can have your cake & eat it too! It's all going to be ok. My wife thought that and didn't realize the damage she caused in our marriage & is now trying to do everything she can to fix it. The sad part is if she would have done this while the affair was an EA & it may not have turn into a PA & I might be willing to work as hard as she is doing now. Every time I look at her it's not the same & she can see it on my face no matter how hard I try to hide it For your sake I hope the marriage is over and the two of you don't fix it. Because when all this comes to light (and it will) and you decide to save your marriage (and you will) your husband might not want to work anymore. I hope it's worth it!
WAW 32 ME 38 D11, S9 & D2 Together 10/96 Married 4/2000 Bomb 4/2006 PA1 9/2006 PA2 11/2006 I now know I want out, With my Kids!!!
I just reread some of your posts. On one hand you mention not making waves, and on another you do mention telling your husband about the problems so I'm a little confused.
Unless you're happy with the current situation, I think you'd be best off telling your husband everything (the affair, how you're connecting better with others, etc...). That way everything REALLY is out on the table and you and your husband aren't continuing with some lie. If so far, nothing you have done has made him take your unhappiness seriously, and try to work towards a better marriage, maybe it's time you try to "wake him up." Life is short, and you are not a young woman anymore.
Here's my own personal thoughts on when to reveal an affair and when not to reveal one, and others might disagree with me here, but....
If someone has had an affair, figures it was a huge mistake, learned a lesson, realize they love their spouse and want to stay in their marriage... then I don't see any good reason to tell them. That's when you focus on now and let the mistake go
But if you don't think it was a mistake, are still unhappy in the marriage, still vulnerable to other relationships taking prescendence over the marriage... then I do think it's best to reveal it. Otherwise you and your husband are both going to spend the rest of your lives in an unhappy holding pattern. And from what you've described I have a feeling your husband is just as unhappy as you are. In fact, he may be having an affair as well.
Thanks to all of you on your posts...you are all very right about a lot of things.
Why haven't I left my H? That answer is simple - THE KIDS. I can't bear to break up the family so I am living in this holding pattern.
runningoutoftime - Oh yes, the OM does make me feel good about myself and helps to validate myself. I didn't get that from my husband in 20 years of marriage. The funny thing is because of the OM, I have made a lot of self-improvements that have gone unnoticed by my H. Especially physical improvements and doing a lot more things that I enjoy. Not one comment on changes by my H. I do enjoy the compliments from the OM and other people as well, who doesn't? I'm human and I'm a female...
I have absolutely NO expectations that there will ever be more between myself and the OM. He will 100% not risk his family...he LOVES his wife, you may ask why does he continue an EA with me? I don't really think it is an Emotional A for him - it is a friendship...he really sees me as just a woman to talk to about things you can't talk to other people about...just a cool friendship...we just have a connection. He definitely is not head over heels over me and I don't need him to be...I am not sitting here wishing for more with him...really...
But what he did is make me realize I am capable of a connection with someone else. Before that I was so low, I was having trouble connecting with ANYONE. That is how bad it gets when after 20 years of M you are ignored...Now at least I feel like a worthy woman and can have connections with other people in a good way...
Why did I marry my H? Because I was young and stupid, that's why...I met him at 16 and married him at 22 even though even back then I knew something was not there.
I will NEVER think the A was a mistake. I have no idea what would have happened to me if I didn't have the A. You are ALL 100% right that I should tell my H and I need to tell my H. It still comes down to the KIDS...and this huge circle of family and friends who would be let down. If I were to get divorced I would be the FIRST divorce ever on either side of my family or my H's family. Our families are very unique that there are no divorces. My H's parents practically hate each others guts and they still stay together being miserable. My own parents live in the same house but do separate things all the time, hardly really talking to each other. Yet still everyone sticks it out.
Oh well...thank you all for all of your advice...I really have to do something...
