I see your position, but to me I see a potential loss in not exposing my kids to what they might encounter in the real world, sort of a tough love approach. If a girl never experiences teasing comments from males, she will surely remember it the first time she comes up against it. If she has learned to blow it off, it probably won’t even be a memory by the next week.
While I understand and appreciate the necessity of not sheltering children (and it is a major obstacle in my own situation), are you suggesting that modeling bad behavior is a good idea?
If so, why not model good behavior while at the same time informing your children about bad behavior and how to deal with it?
Of course, male sexual teasing is not necessarily bad behavior, it depends on the circumstance and in some cases may be welcomed by the woman.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
This is a great example of a communication issue that YOU have. You filled in the blanks of a story to fit your expectations. Why did you ASSUME that the woman was no longer with the boyfriend and that she was now married to someone else?
Because the article said past boyfriend, not husband. This brought up another thought….
Yep, I do make assumptions. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. In dealing with people, I believe you HAVE to make assumptions. Those need to be as well grounded as possible and free of projection, but even if you ask the other person how s/he feels in the hopes of not making an assumption, you still run the risk of using that person’s assumptions. There is no absolute in dealing with human emotion.
Furthermore, I believe that if you want to be more empathic and compassionate, you will have to make assumptions all the time. Your partner will rarely come right out and tell you exactly how s/he feels. S/he may not even know. But s/he wants you to show that you care by taking the time to read into his/her feelings, connect the dots, and then come to the right conclusion (connecting the dots scores no points if your conclusion is wrong). So it is a tough chore IMO. It takes practice, perception, some intuition (which is why I was asking questions of LG, that reminds me, I need to get back to him…)
Let’s take an example… Lou, CeMar, I am going to use you, and I mean no offense, but this is really for you. IMO, they are both scared of blame, among other things. This in turn comes from their FOO issues, whatever they may be. NOP recently gave Lou some very good advice to go dancing. It was too much for Lou to face and he deflected with several reasons why he could not do it. Then he was right back in complaining mode about BB, wanting her to change but unwilling to push himself out of his own comfort zone by facing his own shame issues and changing himself. I believe NOP is right in that a stuck marriage needs to move off center to move forward, however that needs to be done..
It occurred to me that Lou is actually cut from the same cloth as CeMar, less the obvious anger. Both Lou and Cemar seem to need a logical, explicit flowchart of just how all the pieces fit together in order to see who is doing what. More specifically, to see what each person is doing and where his own responsibility lies. Until this responsibility is undeniable, they can deflect that responsibility and maintain focus on their spouse. (Actually we all do this, don’t we?)
But in order to focus on ourselves and the work we need to do, I believe we need to have a good understanding of our spouse. We need to develop empathy and compassion. We cannot read their mind so we need to develop a certain amount of intuition. With that information we can then look back at ourselves to see what we do to cause the pain we now see in our spouse. IMO that whole process requires making assumptions.
I think Lou and Cemar stay logical because it is a way of defending their position, not feeling their spouses’ pain, and therefore not having to confront themselves. Logic can seem irrefutable. The jump to making assumptions can seem so illogical. There are countless stories of people making poor assumptions and creating bigger problems. It is all a risk. It is life. It requires personal responsibility. I believe we must push our boundaries, take the risk of being wrong, learn from it, and go on. I heard something on TV last night… it referenced Winston Churchill saying:
“Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.”
As I looked up that quote I also find another of Churchills: “No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism.”
So I have no problem with making assumptions. I try not to push the limits of my assumptions too much, but I will push them. I feel this is important for me because I used to be more like Lou and Cemar and I am trying to move away from that model.
I cannot respond the the minimizer/maximizer comments yet because I am not familiar with those terms. At first I "guessed" that maximizer was the same as perpetrator but I do not think that is accurate. But is the reverse accurate - is the maximizer the victim? I don't think that's true either. I'll have read up on it later when I have time.
Minimizer/maximizer really has nothing to do with perpetrator. A maximizer is someone who maximizes their communication style, talking loudly, yelling, hand gestures, animated motions, taking action. Nothing is implied about whether this is good or bad. The minimizer is the opposite – reserved in appearance, collected, not demonstrative, usually not shouting.
When a couple like this walks into a counselor’s office, the maximizer is the first target of the problems, since s/he is doing the talking, shouting, expressing anger. But as we know, that is a reaction to something else, a reaction to get validation. If the minimizer has shut down, then who is the bigger problem?
I'm going to take this opportunity to say that I need to take a break from posting about myself as I have in this thread. I have a lot to process and I'm just beginning to find my way. I feel like I've undergone at least a year's worth of therapy in a week!
I appreciate all the responses; they have helped me to understand myself a little better. Should I feel the need to start up again, well, I'll know where to find you.
Good Luck with your self exploration!! I can be the same way. Trying to deal with too many things all at once is overwhelming.
Not to push too hard but I really enjoyed the book Middle Passages. If you check Amazon.com you can read a 4-5 page excerpt and see if it appeals to you.
Thanks for being able to be so open and honest about your relationship with your father. Deraven and I have had some good discussions because he has an 8 year old daughter and he wants to be aware of the influence that he has with her.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
