Thanks for the advice and encouragement, 1210. I can't sleep, so I got up and took a sleep aide and thought I'd check in for a few minutes before I try to get to sleep again.
I know I need to get back in the saddle and that I was feeling so much better, and I will do it again. As I said, it's just harder this time because of the reasons that I mentioned. I had hope last time. This time I still do, but it's different. I know that everything that you're saying is right and that that is what I need to do. I just am so very weak right now, and it's so hard to muster up the strength to do the things that I know I need to do. As I said, I hope it will get easier with each passing day. And I will work on looking out for baby steps from him to help to encourage me.
I keep thinking about the night he came home in January for just that one night. Although the night was still a bit awkward for obvious reasons, it was also so magical. He held me like he used to; he rubbed my hair; he told me he WANTED to be home; we made love TWICE in the same night; he left me a nice note the next morning in which he said "P.S. I'm sure you know I love you." Looking back, it was a better night than we EVER had when he actually came home.
So, why was that? That happened maybe about a couple of weeks after I started doing much better with DBing and doing things for myself, etc., and not pestering him so much. As you know, I wasn't perfect, but it was a long haul from where I had been. He had actually rubbed my shoulders that night at our awards dinner ON HIS OWN - no asking from me. My heart melted. He didn't do that at all when he came home. Any physical touching was 99% of the time initiated by me. It was horrible.
So, that being said, I have to believe that my Db'ing just might have been the cause for that night. I don't know for sure, but it's the one thing that was different. So, I just have to pray that if I work on getting to that point again, we may make a turn for the better. I KNOW he's tired of the conflict and my depression and sadness and predictability. I'm tired of it, too. I DO get all of this; I promise. I know what I have to do; like I said, I just feel so weak right now and sick to my stomach that I have lost so much ground.
Do you honestly think this is still saveable? He's never said that it was over before and that he didn't want to try... I can only pray that it was just in the heat of the moment because he was so tired of my badgering him (even though he said it wasn't). I also know that he at least still cares about me and that he doesn't want to intentionally hurt me. Since he knows he still wants to give it a shot with her right now, maybe he doesn't think there's any other choice but to end it with me? Maybe he doesn't think I have the strength to carry on knowing he's going to be with someone else. I have to admit, it is pretty messed up. At the same time, if it's what I must go through to get through this and to become a better person, sobeit I suppose for as long as I can take it or until he says he's actually ending it for good. I'm not going to make it easy on him; if he wants to end it, HE can be the one to bring it up from now on.
Thank you again for your encouragement. It's nice to know that you believe in me...
Remember that sentence anytime you feel compelled to ask him about R/M....
I still believe that he told you things were over for good just to get you off of his back....I know my H said I could beat a dead horse with my constant questioning/inquiring/explaining in my need to be understood....
Don't remind him about Vegas....he is a big boy...so what if he forgets....do you honestly think at this point that he is really ready to be with you on a pleasure trip???....Think about it...he just got through telling you it was over....if you ask him about the Vegas trip then you are not respecting his feelings....
How do you change his feelings???...YOU DON'T....YOU CHANGE yourself...and then maybe he will feel attracted to you once again...you must loose the drama...the inquisitions....the constant need to be right....the need to be heard....the need to clarify....You have to let him be a MAN...to take the lead...I will bet the OW allows him to do that...you need to become BETTER then the OW in HIS EYES!!!....we all know we are better...but we really need to better ourselves....
And remember...you are NOT changing for HIM....YOU ARE changing for YOU....YOU want to be this new great person....because if you do it for any other reason...well lets just say you will be back here again needing support because H left....and no one wants to do this again and again!
So....get a positive attitude on, dress pretty, think nice thoughts, get a life, and have a great week!!!
Thanks, Lin. You wrote just at the right time. I'm in and out of tears today and feeling desperate again but am putting on a smiley face on the exterior for him.
I think I feel worse today than I did over the weekend. Part of it might be just because I'm really, really tired. I hardly got any sleep last night and had to get up early. I came in to the office early to try and get a jump on some work things, but I just cannot seem to concentrate. And I have so much to do...
I saw H this morning already. He called me and asked if I had some time to talk about the business finances. I said I did, and he said he'd be up to the office in a bit. He asked if I needed him to get anything on the way, which was nice. We had a nice conversation when he was here, and it went fine, but my heart was tearing into pieces the whole time. But I did NOT let on that I was upset. I think I did good.
He asked me whether I wanted to take a shredder that we just bought "home." I know that sounds silly, but at least he is still calling it "home." It's funny how you see the small stuff when you're going through something like this, isn't it?
Lin, I so hope that you are right about him just telling me it was over to get me off his back. I feel so hopeless right now. The bad moments far outweigh the ones that I can force positive thoughts into my mind, and I am physically sick to my stomach again today.
I keep wanting to ask him "Do you think there is still any hope for us?" I know I can't, but I'm just so desperate for some sort of hope to hold onto. Please help me to be strong and get my wits about me!
I miss his so much. I miss the way he looked at me with love in his eyes. I miss being held at night. I miss knowing I could call him anytime that I wanted and didn't have to worry about what I said. I miss feeling wanted. I miss being ME!
I hope the doctor will be able to give me some type of medicine this week that will help to calm my nerves. I'm honestly getting worried about the business; things are falling through the cracks because I just can't seem to pull myself together to focus.
Sometimes I wonder if I just need to say either we're going to work on this or we're going to end this NOW (my impatience), as this being in limbo without any known end in sight is absolutely horrible...
Wow...you really need to try and get some sleep tonight, you're going to run yourself into the ground, if you don't. imLin stated it exactly what you need to do.
My feeling is that he tried to come back, based on the strong self-image you presented to him earlier, but when you sensed he wasn't emotionally there, you reverted back to your old self again...one of desperation. You talked him to death out of your insecurity and low self-esteem. Tam, he is so over that, it's scary...you need to get a hold of your self - tonight, right now and start changing this persona that you have. What is the worse case scenario? He divorces you...then what will you do, become? Think of it as this: Will you die? No you won't. You were not this way before you met him, I don't think, so why are you clingy, needy, desperate now? Your need to nurture him sounds more like you are "mothering" him, to no end. He already has a mother, he wants a wife, a partner for life. He can set his own appointments, arrange for his own travel needs, he is a big boy...he doesn't need, nor want, someone to run his life for him...yes, you are still trying to control him.
Let HIM run the show...stop the controlling factor, let him speak if he wants to, or not. Let there be silence between you both at work...when he chooses not to speak.
Tam, have you given any thought to seeing a therapist? The idea may help you put a laso on your need to control. imLin said that the OW is probably letting him, be himself...I couldn't agree more with her. That is what he finds appealing - as to the other option of being clingy and desperate. Do you see that?
It is CRITICAL...that you do not discuss or ask him anymore questions about "us". Do not Tam, before you left on your trip you had posted twice that you asked him if he was still going on the trip with you - twice, Tam, after you stated you wouldn't ask again - it was for "your affirmation". This is what really bothers me...you say you know what to do, everyone tells you the same thing...but you still go about it the wrong way. IT DOES NOT WORK YOUR WAY!!!...we have been there, done that...we are trying to help you not to fall in the same cracks that we did. You are your worse enemy...your behavior must change 180 degrees and stay that way...forever. I suggested a therapist because right now, I think you need to talk this out with someone who can impress upon you that you are pushing him away with this type of desperate behavior. You still don't understand that this is exactly what drives him back to her - your neediness.
Now, you're making yourself ill by richoceting off the walls in desperation to do or say anything to get him back...you are creating this turmoil in your own head. You are the reason that you can't sleep, eat or function...you. Tam, have one last cry tonight - then, tomorrow, you wake up, have a positive outlook at life, have faith, and walk into work like you are the Queen of the world...nothing, can bring you down.
Right now, no, you don't have any hope...why? Because last time you had hope, you misused it...let him go, stop mothering him and let him go...go to Vegas with a friend, he's not going to go with you, not now. Pick a friend and have a good time...relax and enjoy yourself. I want you to feel that he is gone from you except for work, that he is a stranger, you must seek your own happiness...that is the only way you'll learn to leave him alone.
Tam, you can salvage this marriage...but only when you detach yourself, truly, and let him go. Work on your self esteem and pumping up your PMA...that's what will make him notice - in time.
I'm always blunt with you and you know that, but it is just so easy to do, when I see a situation that can be repaired so easily and will have good results - however, you need to start applying the DB techniques in earnest, not halfway, but totally.
There is HOPE in your situation...BUT...BIG BUT...ONLY IF YOU BACK OFF NOW....
Yes it will get better....
I agree, you probably would be well served talking to a therapist...I know I did a few times...and she pointed out to me when she saw H and I together (something I made H do) that when I was all weepy, sad, needy, and desperate that I was not attractive...no one wants a leach...they want a partner...she also told me to stop acting like I was H's mother...like you I took care of the bills, the money, the travel arrangements, reminded him to call his mother, brother, sister....get the picture???...Sound a wee bit familiar???...She told me my husband was grown up and that I should just let him take care of things...if he didn't it was NOT MY PROBLEM...she said I needed to take care of MY BUSINESS...
So that is what you need to do...no need to make an announcement about it....next time he has a missed appointment, or travel or what ever...and IF he even says anything to you....just tell him you thought he would be taking care of his own arrangements now...if someone calls and leaves a message with you...write it down and leave it where he will see it....just like any other employee would do taking a message...they wouldn't go hunting the boss down, calling all his numbers, or confronting him and asking him a million questions...
So now you have two experience veterans....me and 1210...telling you not to ask about the trip to parents, leave a note for him....probably best for you to bow out...this would be a 180 for you....as for Vegas...invite a friend or go alone...don't bother mentioning it to him....and HAVE A WONDERFUL TIME....
Today is the day you MUST MAKE IMPORTANT CHANGES....THIS WILL GIVE YOU HOPE....
My husband said worse things to me...believe me my heart was crushed...I couldn't imagine my life without him and at the same time I couldn't imagine him ever wanted to be with me again..
Life is really tough sometimes...it is what we learn from life that makes us who we are...you have the opportunity to learn so much about yourself and what you are truly capable of....you have the chance to become someone who is truly wonderful and great....and whom your H may take a second look...
You MUST stop being needy, clingy, questioning....
And you really need to get over this
"Sometimes I wonder if I just need to say either we're going to work on this or we're going to end this NOW (my impatience), as this being in limbo without any known end in sight is absolutely horrible..."
As long as you keep this impatience in your life you are going to blow it!...To give him an ultimatum now is as good as going and filing for divorce....
Ask yourself....would I rather NEVER have H back in my life and move on....or CAN I be patient for now and see what H wants in the future...
Like my H told me....I kept asking him if he thought about us, if we had any chance at all....on and on and on and on....finally he said well maybe in 10 years...when I balked at that and said I didn't want to wait 10 years to find out if we had a chance he said well I am sure in 5 years you would have an idea....in other words....BACK OFF!!!
I have been reading your advice and I am so impressed. It has helped me tremdously to know there are others going thru what I am. I am also having trouble focusing not to be to needy. I have been married 25 years and lived by my self and I make major business decisions every day. but when my husband has a OW that I know it has killed me. I can really relate to 2940. I also need to turn loose and just do business. Because my husband still wants to talk and be there for me. It like we are friends instead of being married. I have a hard time not bringing her up. I know that is wrong. I have also read How to break free from the affair. It gives you exactly what you should not do. We all have made the same mistakes it just hard to break old habits. I believe you guys are great support. I enjoy reading what you have to say. It is real hard in the day knowing he is calling her and texting her instead of me. So I have to control my urge to call him and ask to many questions. It is almost like obsession.
It is obsession...the ability of not being able to let go. I cannot speak for Lin, but I had to go through a divorce first. The minute the papers were signed, the husband no longer existed in my life. Every ounce of my being totally buried him in my thoughts...and you know what? A year later he stays at my house for the weekend, then goes back to our house during the week. We are becoming best friends again, the trust is coming back because we both don't have any expectations.
The history before this was that we both cheated on each other. Yes, in the beginning I cried, was upset, but put a time of three weeks of not liking myself in that condition. After that I moved out and continued working...met a lot of new friends, did a lot of things that I thought I would never do...scuba diving, soaring, traveling when I could...just to shake up the status quo...it worked. My XH came over one night after my 45 birthday last year and it has been very good. We have had differences here and there, but this time we work them out.
Do not put the OW on a pedestal...she's a symptom only of an unhealthy relationship. Let it die on it's own...it will. Be a happy, self indulgent, enthusiastic person. If you get a chance to see your husband, be at your best, be positive and let him know - you are surviving without him. Show him that your world is not falling apart because he left. You owe that much to yourself.
Yes, it's hard...but...if a doctor told you that you would die if you mentioned the OW to your husband, one more time - or if you act out in desperation you would die...you wouldn't do it. That is how important it is to break those habits...they only push the spouse further away. Once you stop doing what is really hurting your chances for recounciliation - the faster you will heal...
Good luck Penny
Sorry Tam for the hi-jacking...but this applies to you, as well.
I totally agree with Penny - you guys are the best! Thank you so much for being there for me and kicking me in the butt but in a supportive way...
I can't tell you how much your posts have meant to me. Today I had an horrible day, as I explained earlier. I was in and out of tears all day (but never around H). Every time I thought I just couldn't take it anymore and was going to lose it, I would just log on here and read your new posts or re-read your old ones to give me the confidence and support I needed to stay focused and not do things I shouldn't. You have been my lifeline. Thank you.
I saw H again tonight for a little while. He came to the office, we went over a few business things, then we worked in our separate offices for a few hours. I talked to him about business a bit too much I know, but the good thing is that I could feel when I was doing it, so at least I noticed.
He looked really tired today. Hopefully he's not getting any sleep either (but not for reasons I don't want to think about...)
He left he office tonight without even coming in to say goodbye to me, and that really hurt. Then, I tried to put a positive spin on it, thinking that I know he would have felt awkward to say goodbye, almost like saying, "Good night, W. I'm going over to the OW's house now." So, hopefully that's what it was about, that he cares about my feelings and doesn't want to throw it in my face. Do you think that's what it was, or do you think he really just doesn't care???
1210, you're exactly right in what you said about H coming home and me freaking out and going back to old ways and chasing him away again. I needed to stay the same me that I was working on, but I panicked. I don't think it was totally my fault, but I didn't help matters any.
Do you honestly think it's not too late to fix this? I feel like I screwed everything up after I had worked so hard...
Last time when I was doing so much better, he came home that one night maybe two weeks or so later. So, it may take me a few days still, but once I get back in the saddle of doing better at DB'ing again, I'll watch and see how he reacts.
If he does come home again some night, how do I handle it? Before, at least the understanding was there between us that he was coming home at some point, but now? I want to be loving and support him, and at the same time, I don't want to feel "used" (and that's not the right word, but hopefully you know what I mean), and I don't want to get hurt. I just keep thinking back to that first night and how much different it was than when he came home, and the one different factor was ME. I was DB'ing better, and I was more confident. Then, I just broke down when I got so scared. Can I still win him back? Is it really too late, as he told me? Will he be able to get beyond this? What if he really DOES want to be with her instead of me??? ...
I'm totally and completely exhausted tonight. As 1210 said, I'm wearing myself into the ground. So, off to bed I will go, my one last cry (can't promise it will be the FINAL one, but I'll work towards it ), and a new day tomorrow. This WILL get easier, and I CAN do this. I got closer before, and I just have to get there again, realizing this time that that is why he was drawn closer to me, because of my letting him be and my self-confidence. It's just so hard to put on that exterior when you're in a million pieces inside but, in time, I will get stronger. I have to.
I will keep remembering what you've said - if a doctor told me I was going to die if I brought up the R or the OW, I wouldn't do it...
Oh, and about the therapist. I will think about that. Have any of you talked to a DB coach? I also have my appointment with the doctor tomorrow to hopefully get some sort of RX to calm my nerves and also to inquire about the DHEA that Lin suggested. You guys are better than any therapist could be anyway, right?
Thanks again for getting me through yet another day. Please help to keep me strong and to help me to not only get my H back, but to become the woman both he AND myself want and need me to be...
Up again... can't sleep... So just thought I'd pop in and say hi for a minute to maybe get some thoughts out and help me to get back to bed for at least a little while.
Please tell me what you think about him leaving the office last night without even saying goodbye... I want to know your take on this.
Okay... so about the "mothering" him. Will you help me with that? I don't know how to change some of that. In our business, and also in our personal lives, we've just each taken on certain "roles." He takes care of any car issues, repair issues, the yard, etc. I take care of the household chores, the bills, travel arrangements, etc. It's the way it's always been, and it seems to have always "worked" for both of us. I honestly don't sense that this bothers him, but maybe I just don't see it. I certainly don't have a desire to take care of my own car or to repair our toilet, etc. We just have our own roles we do, and it works. Are you saying I need to not do these things anymore? If so, how do I transition into that? Do I give him the bills and tell him to pay them? I don't feel like these issues are part of my "controlling" nature but rather that we've each just taken out the roles that we have strength in, and I honestly don't feel like he has a problem with this, but maybe I just don't see it...
1210, I know what you're saying that I have to apply the DB principles faithfully. I know how important it is, and I know, especially now, that it's the only chance that I've got to get this M back on track. Please help me to be strong. I feel so weak.
Looking back, I guess I've always had self-confidence issues to a certain extent. Maybe I need to get some books on that issue? Lin, have you found any helpful books on the communication "beating a dead horse," asking a million questions, etc., issue? I know I need to use this time to better myself and work on these issues.
Also, please tell me what to do if he ever DOES come home for a night, okay?
Well, going to try to get a little more rest here... Thanks again for all of your advice and support. I know you're right, and I know what I need to do, and I also know that since you've been there, you know how hard it is, too. So please help me to be strong and forgive me when I mess up sometimes...
Do you think that's what it was, or do you think he really just doesn't care??? I don't know what he thinks and neither do you...he may have not been thinking or he was just avoiding another questioning??? Do you honestly think it's not too late to fix this? I honestly don't think it's too late to fix this. If he does come home again some night, how do I handle it? Be nice and happy. Try not to talk so much and listen to what he says...follow his lead...if he wants to have sex with you...well that is your choice but you might want to set some boundries...let him know you really want to work on a normal healthy sexual life but because of OW you don't think it would be right....that would be my feelings on it. Before, at least the understanding was there between us that he was coming home at some point, but now? You pushed him to give you an answer and he gave you one to shut you up....again my feeling....you have to leave him alone....don't make him tell you again that he isn't coming back....instead act as if you respect his feelings and the reasons for leaving and wanting time to himself Can I still win him back? Probably in time. Is it really too late, as he told me? Again I don't think it is IF YOU GIVE HIM RESPECT for his feelings and quit asking him the same things over and over until he is forced to give you an answer that maybe he doesn't want to give but will shut you up. Will he be able to get beyond this? If you give him the time and space, yes he can. What if he really DOES want to be with her instead of me??? Right now he does want to be with OW instead of you....only YOU can change that feeling by becoming attractive to him the way OW does....by not pressuring him Have any of you talked to a DB coach? I haven't but had a friend that did and he said it was the best money he spent. You guys are better than any therapist could be anyway, right? I wouldn't go that far.
Are you saying I need to not do these things anymore? If so, how do I transition into that? Do I give him the bills and tell him to pay them? I am saying to respect his feelings you need to act like you are not a couple. Let him know that you will take care of your personal business and he can take care of his....if he ASKS you to do something for him and you don't mind then okay....but don't assume he wants you to KEEP DOING IT...make him responsible because if he was to not come back can you honestly say you would be making his travel arrangements and phone calls for the rest of his/your life??? Maybe I need to get some books on that issue? Lin, have you found any helpful books on the communication "beating a dead horse," asking a million questions, etc., issue? I read a lot here and examined myself honestly. Also, please tell me what to do if he ever DOES come home for a night, okay?Read what I wrot above.
So...you see all the questions you asked and I answered them all...now practice accepting the answers and don't ask them again....this is your first lesson of the week to work on.... Are you up for the challenge???
I do think if you can REALLY make CHANGES IN YOU...PERMANENT ones that H will take another look....and when he does you have to be resolved to not blow it...stay calm, don't get clingy, don't start questioning, and be the lover that he needs...become the OW in his life....does that make sense?
and thought I'd check in for a few minutes before I try to get to sleep again.