Is this meaning that you have answered my questions already in past comments or you think I am a “know it all?” I don’t think either is true.
Fearless,
BTW, glad to see you were not upset over my comments last week. I was getting the wrong impression that you were getting peeved at me. Anyway….
Wow, a very interesting conversation. While I think that Cobra went off on a tangent from the original subject of how damaging a father's comments to his daughter about sexuality can be…
I agree, but it is now starting to come back and close the loop…
First the original subject - it sounds like he does agree that a father can cross the line and be damaging to a daughter by inappropriate, careless or uncaring remarks about sexuality. This is the father's responsibility and issue and is not the fault of the daughter or wife.
Agreed.
His question was how much a mother could balance this issue. Of course the first issue is whether the mother is even present for the remarks. And even if she is there, how to handle it without more damage is key, and I thought his view of what the mother could say might even cause more damage.
Only in some situations, IMO.
First do no harm is something that might work here also. If the mother was strong enough, she would just cut off the remark and make it clear to the daughter that that kind of remark was not to be tolerated.
Yes, as the default response.
Deraven and I spoke about this yesterday and one thought we had about what comments a father could make to his daughter could be "tested" by thinking would you want your daughter's math teacher, basketball coach, male family friend, etc. making that same comment to or about your daughter? They may not have a clear signal of inappropriate remarks from other adult males if their father makes the same remarks.
True, but if the child knows where the father’s comments are coming from (in a harmless, non-threatening manner), then distinction can be made with the teacher/coach’s comments.
I saw sexual comments back and forth between my parents and grandparents about physical attributes, etc. but this talk was not directed toward the kids and grandkids. (i.e. the husbands would comment about their wives endowment but not on other wives and definitely not about any of the kids) I have always had a basically healthy attitude and feeling about sex so I guess this worked for me.
Good for you. Few people seem to understand that this can actually work like you describe. They rush to assume any sexual comments must be bad, shameful and off limits because that is all they learned in church. That does not have to be true.
Fourth and fifth are the mothers and fathers roles in a girl's development into a woman. Both are very important because you learn a lot from each. The mother's role definitely gives a girl a direct view of what is womanly/feminine. (This could be a side topic - as I have written it occurs to me that I would categorize myself as more womanly than feminine) The father also is important for showing a girl how men are supposed to treat women.
Mojo's example is very interesting because she did not have a healthy female role model but her father's treatment of her managed to counteract her mother. So it could be that this is the opposite of Cobra's theory. At least Mojo shows that a "good" father could offset a "bad" mother at least as well as a "good" mother can offset a "bad" father.
….This is where the midlife "crisis" can occur.
Typically yes, but the same “midlife” evaluation can occur at other times too, even in the late teens, when kids move out of the house to college and away from the influence of controlling/abusive parents. It can even occur in kids where a child is angry or has behavioral problems because of too much abuse/control/shame/etc. IMO, all these things are expected reactions to varying degrees of trauma.
So Mrscac4 is doing her own search. She does not seem to be looking to BLAME her father or mother for her issues…..
I agree that this is what she is trying to do. But I think she is still directing her anger at her dad and denying the role her mother could have played. So CAC4 ends up paying the price for her father’s actions because he is the obvious perpetrator. It is a victim-like form of rationalization, IMO.
My questions to MrsCAC4 center around this very point. If her mother had not exhibited fear toward her father’s advances, would MrsCAC4 even had known there was something to worry about? Why are sexual advances like she describe automatically deemed fearful in one household but can be viewed as healthy, playful behavior in another? Who is at the center of these differing interpretations? Answer THIS question.
I also believe this is extremely difficult and painful to accept, if it is true (and I may be completely wrong on this). But it is too easy to blame the obvious perpetrator (the maximizer) and not see faults of the minimizer that helped to create those conditions.
She is looking to see how she got where she is (which means looking at her parents weaknesses and mistakes) and is working to work past those shadows (developed by her coping mechanisms for her father and learned behavior from her mother). Obviously she is an amazing woman to be owning up to her past issues and working to get past them and her H is a pretty wonderful guy to be so supportive of her in this journey!!
