I was a questioner...I would ask the same thing in a million different ways...because I always thought if he understood my question he would have agreed with my reasoning....well he understood my question...he just disagreed with me...and I couldn't accept that...so I worked on accepting his answers without giving him the 3rd degree...
I also worked on be less argumentive....more amiable....I worked on really listening to him....validating his feelings instead of trying to solve his problems...
I worked on being more patient with my son...developing closer relationships with my kids...
These were the differences he saw...plus I worked on being more positive about others and not imputing wrong motive to others... you know how when a waitress is rude...or someone cuts you off in traffic...instead of reacting in kind...I learned to reason that maybe something was going on in their life that they were having a hard time with...
I basically did a 180 with my own personality...but I am still me...I still know how to stand up for what I believe in...but now I am careful about what I insist upon....
Wow, Lin - I can't believe how similar we sound! It's so very helpful to have you helping and supporting me. Thank you.
I'm having a really hard day again, and am getting through it. Still have not totally gotten into my work but am working on it. I know I'll see him tomorrow, so I just keeping looking forward to that and thinking about how I need to act around him and improve myself.
I feel EXACTLY the same way you did about tracking him, needing to know where he's at, etc. I have learned from others on this board that I AM controlling, and I hate it. I want to be better. I know I need to work on this. And I know that last time I stopped snooping it really helped, so I just need to accept that I now know that he's going to be spending time with her again, and I've got to just let him do what he needs to do right now and work on bettering me so that I'm a better person for him to come back to.
As far as our trip to his parents, I just don't know... The last conversation I had with him about it was not the one that he said we could still go. It was the one where he said he thought it was more important to get our ducks in a row with the business. I asked if we did that if we could still go, and he said we'd talk about it later, and that's how we last left it...
Also, I always make all the travel arrangements, so I do need to cancel them if need be (he would have no clue...). I could tell him how to do it, but that wouldn't probably make any sense... I also was the one to call his parents to schedule this, and he would assume that I would be the one to call them to cancel. So if I don't and they don't hear from us, they'll be calling ME a few days or so before our trip, not him. So then what do I do???
And the difficulty with the Vegas trip is that if I'm going to have a friend go with me I would need for that person to make a reservation soon! I can't wait until the last minute... Maybe I should just go by myself if he doesn't want to go???
Your last paragraph really hits home. I think he just came home a few weeks ago out of pressure from me and from himself to "give us a shot" but that he wasn't really ready to do that. I believe that if his heart is truly into fixing us, he will be more open to getting some type of help, whatever that might be. Right now, he's too wrapped up into her and upset with me and us to be in the place. I just have to wait until he is. And the more I try to get him to do things to fix us, if he just does them out of pressure or obligation, the results are not going to be good.
My problem is just patience. I'm NOT a very patient person. I want things, and I want them NOW - part of my controlling nature I guess. That's probably why I reason with him to death when we talk - because if he doesn't say what I want to hear I think if I just say it a different way or explain myself or my thoughts or the situation a little bit better he will see it my way, and I'll get my way! That's not fair. Even if I don't agree with what he says, I just need to learn to accept it.
The hard part is that since he doesn't talk much when we talk about our R, I never really understand what he's thinking or, more importantly, WHY he is thinking what he is thinking. To that end, I guess I feel like I need to constantly explain why I think the way I do "just in case" he hadn't thought of it that way or whatnot. Does that make sense?
The main thing I need to do with our communication is obviously work on my poor style but in addition to that figure out how to draw him out to talk just as much as I do. I know that's way down the line, but it's really important that we're able to have a 2-sided conversation somehow that we both benefit from. As I said, it helps me so very much to have you give me some feedback and things to think about - he's just not able to do that. He tells me I back him into a corner, I debate him, I twist his words around, but he can't tell me what I do that makes him feel that way, so I don't know how to improve... I will work on the things you talked about you did.
Any other tidbits of advice to help me with my patience during this long journey ahead of me?
I have to almost laugh....I could have writen this post....especially the paragraph that started "My problem is just patience....." That was me in a nut shell...
Okay, about the parent trip...have one final discussion and practice your NEW YOU...simply say "About the trip to your parents....what would you like to do?" Then accept his answer...if he says I don't know then say "Well let me know when you do, I marked the calendar so we won't forget when this is planned."...then definitely LET IT GO!...if he says to cancel or what ever and you need to call his parents...ASK him if he wants you to call them for him...leave the decisions to him...don't keep asking...don't try and clarify...just do it!
Your Vegas trip....if you feel comfortable going alone then you should do so...plan to see some really neat shows...go to the Lua it is really cool...drive out to Hoover Dam and take some pictures...do some FUN THINGS you can talk about when you get back...DON'T invite him to go....if he wants to go he will go... no questioning!!!
I know this is going to be hard...it was for me and well I think we might have been twins separated at birth, lol...but if I can do it...YOU CAN DO IT!!!
Yes, I think we MAY have been twins separated at birth! Ha! I can't believe how many similarities we have!
I have been working the past couple of hours on cleaning up the office at one of our properties - it's not the work that I need to get done, but I just felt like I needed to do something to keep busy without a lot of thought required and just "make something pretty..." It helped a bit. It's nice to have it looking better. I am getting ready to head up to our office to see if I can at least work for an hour or two up there on the important things at hand... If not, I may try and make it an early night, take some sleep aids :), and get to bed early so I can maybe wake up early and have a more productive day tomorrow.
Yes, patience, patience, patience... I am SO BAD at that! I hate it when I don't get my way, and I am just horrible and talking and talking and talking to try and make others see my point of view of they don't agree. I guess that might be good sometimes in our business, but it's definitely NOT good in our R. Thanks for helping me to clarify some of my communication problems. It's nice to finally have some feedback to start working on. Did you find any books that were helpful on this "problem"?
So for the parent trip, do you think it's best if I wait until, say, this next Friday or so to talk to him? I don't think if I ask him soon the result will be what I want, and since I CAN'T PRESSURE HIM AND HAVE TO ACCEPT HIS ANSWER, I would rather wait until I might have a better chance... (Bear with me... Baby steps... ) Also, I know he said he wanted to have things going better in our business if we are to go, so if I work hard this week to do that, I think that might help. He still might say he doesn't want to go, but at least I'll feel like I gave it my best shot. What do you think?
So for Vegas, do I not remind him about it at all - ever? As I said, he does NOT remember dates or occasions, as I always keep him abreast of all of that. So on the day we're supposed to leave, do I just say, "Oh, by the way, remember our trip is today. Are you going?" And then if he doesn't want to go, I just go by myself?
I have something else to ask you about. I feel bad that I talked to him the other day and asked him if he made his decision and the resulting conversation we had because I feel like I just made it easy for him now to go running back to her without having to worry about what I was going to do. Before that, he was at least staying at our office some, and I could tell he was having a hard time with things. But then, when we talked and he said he didn't want to be with me anymore but then agreed to just be friends for now and stay married and see if anything sparks in the future and that he was going to continue his R with her in the meantime and that that's what I would have to deal with if I wanted to hang in there, I in essense gave him his golden ticket! I took the pressure off of him so that he could freely go back to her. For all I know, he told her that he told me it's over and that it's just a matter of time now... If I hadn't asked him about it, maybe he would not have gone back to her or at least it would have taken more time and I would have forced HIM to be the one to come to me about it? Or maybe he just would have done it anyway and not said anything to me, just like he did when he packed some clothes and toiletries this time without even bothering to tell me...
I'm just blaming myself again. I feel like he's got everything he wants now, and I'm just miserable. Do you think he's hurting at all, too? Do you think he misses me at all or what we had? Or does the fact that he said he's done mean he no longer feels any pain or love for me? (BTW, he's given me the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech multiple times now. That's the one thing he DOESN'T have a problem saying... ) I just wonder whether he's wrestling with this at all. I would think it would be hard to be with someone you weren't married to and know you were still married to someone else? But maybe not if you don't love the person you're married to anymore... I just don't know. I just feel like I've now made this too easy for him while I'm going through hell...
Hi I have been reading your posts. How alike our stories are. I have been married 25 years with 2 boys one 22 and one 21. My husband took a job 4 years ago that he would be away alot and in fact months at a time. During he had an affair with someone we had helped thru a divorce. He beg me to stay. Then thru a family tragic accident he came home to help his brothers with a business. He now lives 2 hours awayin a 5th wheel trailer at the business. I have taken care of the family business at home and have a full time job. During this tragic time he found another OW who we know and is known to focus on married men. She is very manulative and very good at being just what he likes no Drama.... She has 4 kids and has never had any of them till now. She has never been a mom and had her kids till now she has the 14 year old and is trying to impress my husband that she is a mother. He has told me now that our marrigae has been over for 5 years and he wanted a divorce then. We went to dinner for our anniversary and I actually had him stay with me at a motel to talk ( we didn't ml) because he had slept with her. He talks to me everyday at least twice. He has pulled away from the boys. Which everyone tells him he has the family that everyone wishes for. He told me that he didn't know why he can't support me like I do him. Or why he would want to be with her. I think he is manic depressive. Now back to the why I am replying I am very new at this. I know the gut wretching feeling you have. I have also blown good times because of no patience and I'm like you I want things to happen and be over. Last week he told me that I had taken a good thing and because of being impatience I rode the train into the ditch. I had him coming my way and just had to bring up that she was telling evreyone that we were divorced. It turned into not a good time because I told him what I thought of her. He told me she was telling him one thing and i was telling him another who does he believe. Amazing how deceitful the ow will become. One thing that I have read that I am working on is to Listen ( i'm a question asker to especially when they aren't talking) Not to ask to many questions that is extrememly hard for me. Keep thinking positive and do something for yourself. I lost weight and looked real confident. He told me that being self confident look attractive on me. I just want to tell you to be strong even though its the hardest thing to do. I am not very good at it and really have a hard time. But be your self and be proud of yourself because its not you.
What happened in Hawaii that changed your situation? You're in fifth gear again...slow down, let your husband alone for a while...no more relationship talks anymore. You still are talking him to death, hon. Please back away, keep it all business and do not contact him for any reason, whatsoever. You're going to have to start all over again. How was Kona? I'm really, really sorry that this has taken a bad turn, but in my opinion, you need to be very obscure right now, as much as possible. Please, please, please...no more questions to him about anything relating to the marriage...I cannot stress that anymore to you...you are pushing him away.
It seemed like you had a handle on this before the trip, but now it seems like you are being "the old way" again. Chin up, you can still save this marriage...
Thank you so much for posting on my thread. I am so appreciative of you taking the time to tell me about your situation and of your "bonding" with me in the hell I'm going through and giving me support and encouragement. I wish you the same in all that you are going through.
Yes, I feel the same way in that I felt like I had made so much progress through DB'ing and that we were making good headway. I knew we were far, far from out of the woods, but I could tell he was softening a little bit. Then, when he came home and I could sense that he was home physically but not emotionally, I just fell apart. As I've said, it was almost easier before he came home... So I slipped back into some very bad habits. I don't think it would have made a difference in the outcome since he wasn't ready to work on the M anyway, but it certainly didn't help.
He did tell me at one point during our long talk on our trip that he "hadn't even wanted to have this conversation for at least 3 to 6 months." I'm not really sure what "this conversation" meant, but maybe he was wanting to just act like nothing happened for 3 to 6 months and not talk about anything and see how it went rather than me forcing him to talk about it so soon. But I don't honestly think there is any way that I would have been able to go 3 to 6 months without talking about this. I know I need to be more patient, but that is just plain cruel emotionally...
When I was doing a much better job of DB'ing before he came home, I did go to the gym, lost some weight, started dressing nicer and doing my hair and makeup everyday, doing my nails, etc. I wasn't perfect, but I did much better at not talking to him about our R or the OW. I usually would ask him about our trip that we went on to make sure we were still going, and he would always reassure me that we were and that we were on track for him coming home. I know that wasn't good either, but it was my salvation to keep me going. I think that's why it's so much harder this time. At least then I had something to look forward to and a potential end to all of this. Now it's so up in the air, and I feel so empty inside and lost.
I felt so much better about myself when I was DB'ing, and I know I need to get back to it. I also know that I need to be patient with myself, too, and let myself go through these initial emotions that are overwhelming me. They feel awful, but I know Michele says we need to feel what we need to feel and go through it and come out on the other side. The past few days have been absolutely horrendous on my soul and heart, AND I somehow made it through them and will continue to plug away, hoping that each day I will get just a little bit stronger.
I did get things taken care of to be able to get the funds together for the construction project that he was waiting on me for. I left a note on his chair at the office for him to find in the morning to let him know. I told him I had taken care of it so that he could get what he needed and put a smiley face at the bottom of the note. I hope that will ease his mind a little bit and maybe, just maybe, soften him to me more...
Yes, everyone around us, too, thinks we have a "perfect M" and that we're great for each other. H even said that. He said that any man would be so lucky to have me. He told me he doesn't want me to think that this happened because he thinks I'm not beautiful; it was just a matter of I didn't want him anymore and someone else did - OUCH! It just goes to show you that you don't appreciate what you have until you feel it slipping through your fingers. And to now hear him say the other day that "it's too late..." It just tears me apart. I want so badly to show him that I CAN be the wife and lover he wants. I just have to pray that I will someday get that chance again.
I forgot to tell you all that he also told me the other day that things could never be the same, I'm presuming meaning after all of this has happened. I told him that he hadn't given it a chance. It feels like he's just making excuses to somehow justify what he is doing. You can't say that "it's too late" and "it's just not me to get help" and "things can never be the same," etc. if you REALLY WANT to make something work. He is such a fighter in all that he does, as am I, so it's so hard to see him let go of this in what feels like to me to be such an easy manner. The bottom line is that he has chosen, at least for now, NOT to fight for us. That's what the whole problem is.
I asked him the other day if we weren't together if he was going to be with her. He said he didn't know. He's told me a few times that he didn't know if she was the end-all person that he wanted to be with. That scares me a little bit, because if he's not that attached to her, then when it ends, he might still not want me anymore. It's possible and probably, though, that he just is trying to spare my feelings by telling me that.
I can't imagine how he could ever be able to take her around his family and friends knowing in the back of his mind how this started, but maybe that wouldn't bother him. I don't know. I was thinking the other day how I would ever possibly handle this if we had to tell people that it was over, and I struggled with those thoughts quite a bit. I know I shouldn't care, but I DO care about what other people think, and I don't want them to think that I gave up on us. I want them to know that it was him and that he found someone else. I know it's wrong, but part of me just wants to tell everyone about her if we don't work out just so that I can sabotage his R with her so that he CAN'T take her (at least very easily) around other people. I know that's wrong and I'm just venting because I'm hurting so much, as ultimately I DO just want him to be happy, and if that's with her, then sobeit. It's just my angry side coming out of me. If this doesn't work out, I just want everyone to know that I wanted it to work and was willing to work on it. He would probably just want to tell everyone that we "drifted apart" or something - bulls**t. That may be true, and I take full responsibility for my part in that, but there is still no reason for him to have gone to the extreme that he did and for all that he has done to me since then. Whew! Sorry about that rampage.
Anyway, thanks again for posting on my thread, Penny. I WILL work on being strong and patient and being a better communicator without all of the questions and pressure. I need some time, AND I WILL get there! Thanks for your support and, again, I wish you all the best in what you are going through as well. STAY STRONG!
I don't know if you had a chance to read through all my rambling, but unfortunately, though he came home, he was just here physically but not emotionally. I really needed to know that he had ended it with her, but he didn't want to talk about it, and I didn't think that was fair. Then he was so distant and just wasn't present with me. It hurt so much, and he just wouldn't share with me what was going on in his mind, so I just panicked. I didn't know what to do. I was scared, isolated, lonely, and didn't want to lose him. I just didn't understand what was going on. I thought when he came home we would be starting to work on things again, even if it was slowly, but his heart just wasn't in it.
To be honest, I don't think he even planned on staying home. I'll tell you why. The night he came home, the next morning our cleaning lady was coming over, and she does our laundry for us. Well, I told him she was coming over and to get his clothes so (that he had taken away with him) so that she could wash them. Well, he only brought in maybe 2 shirts and 2 pair of pants, and I knew he had taken a lot more than that with him.
So I asked him that day where the rest of his clothes were. He said they were strewn all over his car and at the job site. I hurt and wondered, but I let it go. Later that day, I asked him if he still needed to go over to her house to get the rest of his clothes, and he told me no. So, again, I just left it at that.
I've been wanting ever since then to ask him about it again but felt I needed to just let it be for the time being. I've been avoiding looking in his car or at the job site because I just didn't want to know.
Well, today I looked in his car and saw NO clothes, nor at the job site. It was what I feared all along. So, my thoughts are that he must have told her he just needed some time to sort through some things and that he was going on our trip, but I don't think he even took his clothes from there. He may have even told her that he was out of town the whole time, rather than only half the time. I don't know. I just don't think from the get-go he planned on working on us. I could be wrong, but that's what my gut tells me. He gave up before he even tried.
Anyway, like I said, I don't know if you've read all of my ramblings, but they explain where we're at now. Yes, I was doing much better before he came home, and we were getting closer. But when he came home and wasn't really there, I just backslid horribly. I blame myself partially, but I'm also angry at him for doing that to me.
I know I need to get back in the saddle, and since I did it before, I know I can do it again. This time it's just harder, because last time I had the trip to at least have an end date with, and he never told me before that he didn't want to be married to me anymore.
I'm very grateful for the insight that Lin has given me into my communication faults. I really want to work on that, as I know that is a major issue with him. I hope that will help.
Thank you for your vote of confidence that I can still save this marriage. I am going to give it everything I have. There's nothing more important to me. And, at the end of it all, I just pray that he will thank me for not giving up and that it will all work out and that I will not have done all of this for nothing. I know that I will be a better person even if it doesn't work out with him and that that is a good thing and that I need to be ultimately doing this for me and not for him, but I just care about him so much and don't want to lose him...
Yes, I caught up with your posts. YOU can do this, but you need to keep calm, no more panic attacks, just let him be. When you got involved with getting yourself to the gym, going out, doing things for you...you were doing great.
Now, you need to keep it a business relationship - he must not see you upset, sad, or asking questions. Let his affair end on its own time - there is absolutely nothing that you can do to end it, make it end any faster, or try to change his mind. Work on being that different woman - act like it doesn't bother you one ounce...let him wonder why you're not fighting, let him worry what has gotten into you...be the mysterious woman with no strings attached. He knows you, your reactions, your needs, you are predictible to him. When he can predict your every move then, there's no excitement for him - he needs to "miss" you, to long for you...but you are throwing yourself at him, that's not too appealing.
You can win him back...just cut him loose for now...worry only about the business end...no more tricks, questions, snooping, or trying to run into him...okay?
) I just wonder whether he's wrestling with this at all. I would think it would be hard to be with someone you weren't married to and know you were still married to someone else? But maybe not if you don't love the person you're married to anymore... I just don't know. I just feel like I've now made this too easy for him while I'm going through hell...