LOU>>>>>>> Do YOU WANT TO DANCE? I had some interest in square dancing several years ago, but that isn't what Nop is talking about.
He is talking about doing something drastic, that shows BB I intend to do some things independent of her and for BB to see that other women would just like to do things with me just because its fun/enjoyable.
Part of the discussion was about appearances, if I did the dancing and invited BB, but she didn't want to go and I want be myself.
What would that look like to BB. What would that look like to our friends/family. Part of the conversation was about what might happen. How to know my limits. Know what not to do and when to stop before any thing really happened along the lines of looking like I was having so called "female friends".
The point was to get BB to appreciate what she has with me and maybe she would be apprective of what I do for her if she thought I might be pulling away from her.
Back to LOU>>>>>>> Do YOU WANT TO DANCE?
Right now, BB is changing for the better and I think the dancing is a bit of an explosive tactic. Can I do a shock-bang like the police do on a raid/break-in, without the benefit of a counselor's advice locally? That is the question.
A long time ago when BB was complaining about what I cooked and served, Nop said when BB complains, give the food to the dog or take it away from her. I did it a couple of times and it worked but took several months for BB to complain less.
A couple of years later, it is working better. It wasn't only taking back the food that made it work. It was me saying by my actions that complaints about what I do for her out of kindness and concern won't go unchallenged. It was showing BB that I went from being a servant to someone she couldn't put down anymore on the food front.
So, would me dancing with someone else work as well? I don't think it would W/O a lot of resistance and some serious resentments, but maybe that is what the R needs or needed several months ago.
Right now I care, but don't worry what is going to happen next. I am feeling strong about me being fine no matter what happens. I see some recent growth in the R for a couple of reasons. One I care less about what I don't control. Two I think BB is seeing she needs more than she let on a couple of months ago. Some of the church activities and talks might be doing something to he thinking process. Maybe I don't appear as needing her as much. Other reasons the R is improving a little, but who knows why.
The latest: BB was on her shopping kick 3-5 years ago, bought a lot of things, and now she is in a "less is better" mode. More things going to the donation store. She is talking about our next home that has to be suitable for retirement and how it has to be elderly friendly, with few steps, yada, yada, yada.
While BB is easier to live with and is being less picky, to me the new home thing is version of the shopping addiction that she thinks she cured herself of. We both have some knee damage but the no steps thing is over-kill to me.
Lou
Corri, if you want to ask or suggest something, please no code.
What would that look like to BB. What would that look like to our friends/family. Part of the conversation was about what might happen. How to know my limits. Know what not to do and when to stop before any thing really happened along the lines of looking like I was having so called "female friends".
Lou, I think YOU'RE thinking about this way too much. The way to find out what happens is to do it. Part of the reason for doing it is to get BB's attention, but as we all know, you cannot MAKE her do anything, feel anything, come to any conclusions.
A bigger part of the reason is to shake YOU up. To let you see a different side of yourself. To let you have some fun and experience yourself as someone who can do a simple, harmless thing with out creating a major federal case out of how BB "might" react.
One of you has to change, to do something different. It's not going to be her.
A bigger part of the reason is to shake YOU up. To let you see a different side of yourself. I was thinking something like that yesterday when LFL made her comment Why is it OK for Lou but not others.
I was thinking to myself, to get me moving forward from the usual catious way I do things.
One of you has to change, to do something different. Some things are changing. BB is acting less independent and displaying fewer femanist ideas.
Thanks for the ^5 BF. Breaking through my anxiety and BB's resistance is doable but creates anxiety I would rather not deal with. All of that anxiety and resistance wasn't there in our M till the back injury caused lots of little problems and lead to BB crashing SD.
I did some more screw the anxiety thing and gave/took a hug from BB because I wanted one. I did it til I was done despite BB's mind being some where else. I think she liked it but was so focused on her rant about what dumb things people do that get in the news, It didn't appear to me she participated much hugging me back. Oh well I got and gave mine.
Re the dancing experiment:
Right now BB is and has been experiencing some kneep pain. She has some but it gets worse when she doesn't walk much. She gave up walking for exercise in the fall so if I asked her about dancing I think she would see that as me setting her up if she said no.
Before any dancing takes place, she has to do some walking and losten up more.
I didn't want to ignore the good intentions of the SSM posters and NOP. I just had to think and determine how practical dancing would be right now.
I think the T.O.P.S. weight group would be a somewhat similar alternative right now. I an go foor me if BB doesn't want to go and I know BB thinks about the OW in the group. She asked about the few meetings I did attend. I said there was a hottie after me but she used a cane and couldn't catch me.
Well the hottie thing wasn't true. The part about her being after me wasn't true. Only the cane part was true. I didn't tell BB the woman weighed 250# and had bad knees, that is why she used a cane at 50 years of age.
I went to a M enrichment / mentoring / mentee session at church (over 100 attended) since my last post on this thread I didn't expect BB to go so didn't say much before hand. When I asked BB if she would go with me, she said it was too this and that, not with in the frame work of what she likes or how she does things. She doubted it would help, but I went.
Don't read this as me complaining about BB, it's also about me not planning and working out things before the event. It is what I expected to happen.
Some things that were said and according to some research: I am not promoting anything here. Just relaying what I heard.
1. Spouses that leave a M, once gone should not be allowed to return for 6 months if they had discussed issues before hand for some time and nothing was resolved. Allowing a departing spouse to return in a week or two lets the WAS spouse think leaving and coming back are no big deal.
The previous statement reminded me of Jenny right now and LFL in the past.
2.For couples that have sex before M, the H needs to apologize to his W and ask for her forgiveness.
I wanted to ask about all of the couples that refrained form having sex and wound up on SSM, but it wasn't my seminar so didn't say anything.
Remember a couple of weeks ago, the group had a speaker that only started to date individually but went on group outings, when he was around 28. He dated his future W 6 months and never kissed her till he proposed.
3. Men don't like counseling but will be more open to training or "Practice" sessions.
There were several disagreements from the male attendee’s but no one said anything. I saw several guys shaking their head from side to side. And a few jaws drop as if to say “you have to be kidding, look at all the men in the audience.
4. 50% of M people in the general population divorce.
Almost as many couples that attend church/religious services divorce at a similar rate.
Couples that verbally pray together and for each daily, have a divorce rate of 1 in 1200. (doing it on the phone count)
5. Treat your spouse with kindness, love and respect for 24 months before leaving or giving up. Don’t expect much of a pay-off for the things you do. You are supposed to do them out of duty, respect, and kindness. It is what you signed up for when you got M’ed. Physical abuse, severe chemical dependency and adultery, are leave now topics.
6. The most common reasons for M problem he sees has some basis in PMS, that is "passive male syndrome" or guys that want to be nice, avoid conflict, and have over bought into some of the feminist men and women are equal or the same. The seminar leader didn't expand on this idea too much it was presented right at the end and the presenter said he sticks to the time he said the meeting was going to start and end.
Someone mentioned the book "Wild at Heart" but the speaker didn't make any comments.
Again, I am not promoting anything here. Just relaying what I heard.
On a personal note, BB's shopping addiction days are starting to bug her again. We took things that cost $400 to the "Donation store that we haven’t used for several years. The part that has me frustrated is we have so much more to move out that I never wanted to buy in the first place, but at the time of purchase, BB said it was her she was spending.
BB was also thinking about selling some of her jewelry to the pawn shop. I said no. Wait 6 month before you do something like that. BB’s friend did something similar 6 months ago and now regrets she sold some her jewelry.
I suppose it is common for people to go in one direction, see that direction's faults, and then go too far in the opposite direction. That is how it feels to me.
Again this is about me being frustrated. Work and work, buy things, too many things then use them for a while only to give them away.
Garage sale? Yes but BB wants to weed out the low $$ first and the garage sale, she wants to go fast. I guess it is her money, her loss.
Lou - let BB deal with her stuff in her way. If you are too involved it will prevent her from seeing that barely used $100 item is going for $5 or right to "Goodwill and what a waste. That was good advice on the pawn shop thing. That is something that will lead to a martyred feeling - not very productive.
Interesting stuff from your group Interesting??? Some I agree with and some seems like perfection in a perfect world.
I guess if I stood up and put the SSM forum on the overhead projector 12' X 12' screen, a few mouths would pop open.
If I want to play by the strictest guide lines I should never have posted on any forum and reading the books was a diversion that wasted time. I am not discounting the good of the program. They have their way, I see the benefit of the forum and the forum / books don‘t fit into their plan.
I like the ethics and the good intentions the leaders have, I don't know if I buy into some of the straight laced thinking.
I know, from what was discussed at the seminar, some radical stuff gets handled by the marriage and family pastor (6 pastor church) and they have affiliations with other churches so there are lots of experienced people in leadership positions.
Donation store activities and retail therapy: I am a waste not type of person. I know I have to let BB deal with her stuff her way. I worked my proverbial butt of to get some of the things we have which lead to some of my back problems, and now poof, we throw it out.
I took a bread box sized carton of candles to the donation store a month ago and yesterday BB was looking at new ones that have lots of aroma. I bit my lip for about 15 minuets and to her credit she didn't buy what the craft seller was demonstrating to her. Not even when he gave her the half off the second candle offer. I thanked her for going with her "less is better" plan she is on big time right now. I tell myself, it's Prozac or retail therapy for BB sometimes. I have been know to take retail therapy pills myself at times.
Today she wanted to look at new homes and I said go ahead, but remember a 20' X 10 yard isn't going to keep the dogs happy. I said I would join her in the new house when I got my stuff sold and it might be a while.
Five years ago, I would have listed all the reasons the new house was wrong for her and me. Back then, I took responsibility for predicting the future happiness for both of us. Today, I essentially said, "here, take the wheel and steer your happiness vehicle. I am tired of being the bus driver all of the time, predicting food and potty stops.
I don't have the delivery down smooth, so it might have sounded like I didn't want to live with BB. I got around to saying, I thought she jumps from "I wnat to I want" so fast, I don't see where she thinks enough about the down side of many of her desires.
Lil: You explained the "you don't want to hear why a person breaks off contact" well. I had longer term relationships in mind.
Those wink things associated with inter net dating, I wouldn't want a reason why they winker lost interest.
