HELP!!!! INFIDELITY AGAIN!!!!

[2940831]

Thanks so much, Lin. H was just back at the office again, and we went over some work stuff. I made myself smile and laugh and be cheerful and tell him a few things I'd done this week. He was kind and laughed with me. We went over the work stuff, and then he left. It's so sad, but when I know he's going to leave, I find myself asking him or telling him "just one more thing" so as to cling to every last moment I can with him. I need to work on that, and I need to be the one to sometimes end the communication.

It was kind of weird, as he went to the bathroom while he was at the office, and he just left the door open and did his thing with me right in the next room. I know we're married and that that isn't a big deal; it just seems kind of odd, if that makes sense. I guess it's good that he at least still feels comfortable enough to do that, right? (Baby steps...)

Part of our conversation involved some future plans for our business, so it was nice to talk about that. That obviously has nothing to do with the R, but it's still nice to be talking about things in the future.

So as far as our trip, when do I ask about that again to see what his wishes are?

Gosh, that must have been absolute torture for you to have to listen to your H on the phone with the OW. You have so much strength. I admire your perseverence so much. And to think that they were talking marriage and that you had to hear the ILY words! Gosh... I can't even bear to ask him if he loves her. I don't want to know the answer to that question.

What kept you holding on for so long? Why didn't you decide to move on? Did you have a limit of how much longer you were going to wait? Did you know when the A ended? How did it happen that he came home?

What are my best chances of when the A ends having him come back to me? Just by LRT, GALing, etc.? I don't want to mess this up. I keep blaming myself, both for our poor sex life that contributed to getting us here and me not doing anything about it and also for feeling like I failed somehow when he came home for those 2 weeks. I keep worrying that if I get the chance again, I'm just going to screw it up. And he's is just not good at being able to tell me what to do to make it better...

As for our sex life and orgasming, I'm fine in talking about it. No holds barred, right? Got to get this thing fixed. Yes, I did orgasm, and that's how this sort of came out in that when I did, he said that that's all he's ever wanted. I usually can orgasm if I'm "in the mood," but our sex life was getting so routine (the rare times that we even were having sex), and neither of us did anything about that, that I really had to work at it most times. Had I realized that it was so important to him, I would have worked harder at it.

Thanks again for your help and support, Lin. It has helped so much to be able to talk to you today. Thank you.

[imLIN]

Do some research for yourself on DHEA...when my sex drive was really low this kicked it up big time for me...you can get it at a health food store but I got mine from a formula pharmacy....I had to get a Rx from my doctor and then the pharmacist made it for me and the potency was consistant....25 mg did the trick for me...

At least he still feels comfortable with you...I think I would have made a suggestive comment in a joking way with him....

Yes...work on the "one more thing"...he will see this for what it is...you clinging to him...not attractive...

As for the trip...he knows you have the tickets...he knows he told you that you could go....leave it at that....if there are any changes HE will let you know!...DO NOT ASK HIM ABOUT THE TRIP AGAIN....get ready whent the time comes...

There were times when I did give up...when I felt all hope was gone...I actually filed for D...got within 5 days of it being final and met with H...we both went to court and asked to call it off...I thought H and I would start to work on things...instead he disappeared for 6 months!!!....so a few months after I found out he was still alive...I filed again!...so there were some real times of dispair...times I felt I should move on...even met someone who flew across country to meet me...spent a weekend at the beach (separate rooms, no sex)...and it made me realize that I was NOT over the love of my H....and that I would not be able to live with myself if I got involved with someone and H decided to come out of the tunnel to find me gone....I decided then I had to stand strong longer...I didn't know how long that would be...he gave me no hope the months before he moved back to town....

Our reconciliation came out of the blue....sort of...he moved back to town....started coming by to see our son...I asked to go out with just him a few times to talk about son and business...usually this went well...I did win tickets to a concert but it was a late night and I work early (school bus driver)....I needed someone to drive me...I asked him if he would go and drive....well we went...had a few too many drinks...after the concert we went to the beach to sober up...he poured his guts out too me...crying, appologizing, professing his love for me, asking me to forgive him....wanting to be intimate with me....upto that night he wouldn't even give me a kiss...only a hug if I asked...well, needless to say a lot of lines were crossed that I felt negated my ability to divorce him and be with someone else...the next day he remember nothing!...I was crushed...but we talked...I said I thought things were moving too fast...we needed to take things slowly...HA...sometimes it was slow and sometimes (usually if he was drinking) it was fast and furious....but in time we found a balance and he agreed that he wanted to put the family back together...that was how it all started...not sure if we hadn't gone out and gotten drunk how things might have played out...but in my heart I felt we would get together if he would just see me and see I had really listened to what he said...and truly had made changes...he was hesitant about how long they would last...but I was determined to become a NEW ME...and I did this for me...not him...I wanted this...I wanted it to be real and lasting no matter what..

Finally I got to a point where I didn't NEED H...but I still wanted him...I was more attractive to H then when I needed him...if this makes sense...

You have a big job...it will take a looooong time....even after H and OW were over he still had feelings for her to deal with...it was a year after they broke things off that he was crying to his sister about her....his sister thought they were still together and planning on marriage the way he was talking....that is how deep this OW had gotten into H...so it was good that he stayed away...and dealt with those feelings on his own...I would have complicated things...

So...make your list...and go to work...this is your most important job right now....becoming the woman you WANT to be...

[iluvme]

I'd just like to respond to your realestate business. Please consult a lawyer. It can only be to your benefit. You don't have to let H know if your are DB but you need to know what can happen if things get ugly.

Trust is still there between you guys but I think that may be tested when you see him overtly in R with OW. He may not trust you and may do things that could financially harm you. I never thought my H of 13 yrs would strangle me financially but he did. He feels that I am only entitled to what the law will give me. Of course, he left out a few things in his presentation to me. That's why i said no mediator.

If documents are in both of your names then figure out what you can do to protect your assets. Also, if you refinance....would that be in both of your names? Any loans, debt etc... If you have cash, protect it now. I am not saying that you should steal joint money but just know where all the money is coming and going. Don't take it for granted.

I never handled the finances in the 13 yrs that I was married. Just had my DD, child #3 and he says he wants D before DD turned 2. He locked up alot of cash in the children's educaton fund. He closed our joint acct and proceeded to reopen accts only in his name so i had no access. I saw him doing this over 2 -3 wks and I never stepped in even though I questioned him. But I never believed that he would "swindle" me. I was stupid and should have got an attrny to lock the accts. I was afraid he would hate me and have no chance of reconciliation. Well, it didn't matter b/c things got ugly and I'd rather have some money than none.

I'm not trying to scare you but it is good to know the legalities just in case OW has him under a spell. He will have no regrets about taking what he feels is "his".

[2940831]

Thanks again, Lin. I'm so relieved that this day is finally almost over... It's been a long one. I'm absolutely and totally mentally and physically exhausted...

Thanks for the advice on DHEA. I'll have to look into that. Is it an actual prescription drug, or is it herbs of some type?

I worry about making suggestive comments... We had gotten to that point before he came home, but now... I should probably let some time pass. When he was with me the last two weeks, it was "just like old times" in that regard. He would swat me on the behind when he would walk by. We would be naked around each other. He called me our old "pet names." It was still strained (obviously), but there were so many wonderful things he did again that I had missed and taken for granted. Do you think those are good "baby steps," or are they just part of his confusion? Which, I guess confusion is better than a flat-out "no."

As for our trip, he is really, really bad at remembering dates and that sort of thing. I always make the plans for us and remind him where we need to be when. To that end, if I didn't bring up the trip again, he's likely to completely forget about it! So, what should I do? I don't want to be discourteous to his parents and not give them plenty of warning if we are not coming... At the same time, after our heated battle yesterday, I'm scared that if I ask him too soon he will just say "no." I know he's really stressed out about the business right now. I'm putting some funds together for some construction costs, and I'm behind on that. I told him yesterday that I was just having a really hard time focusing. It would probably be best if I work really hard the next, maybe week?, to get back on track with my focus on the business. That will hopefully ease that tension for him and maybe make him more open to going??? What do you think? And if I ask him about it and he says he doesn't want to go, do I ask if it's okay if I go by myself?

Thanks for sharing the details about your R and the course it took. Wow, what a roller coaster ride. You have been so incredibly brave and strong through all of this. It's so scary to think that I might have to go through as much as you did to finally get to where I want to be. But I know in my heart that if I don't give this everything I can that I will never forgive myself.

H told me yesterday that it was harder to tell me that it was over than just to say that he was still thinking about things and that he didn't want to just go on like this and "keep kicking me." I'm glad he doesn't want to hurt me, but I guess I just have to keep getting kicked until I can't take it anymore, and although I'm extremely emotional, I am NOT a quitter. I hope one day he will thank me for not giving up on him and us and for hanging in there during his "temporary insanity."

I understand what you're saying about getting to a point where you don't NEED H but that you still want him. As I mentioned before, although I was still a wreck, it was getting easier each day before he came home. I was not happy without him, but the pain was getting a little less. Maybe that was just because I knew that it was getting closer to our trip that we were going on, so I knew my countdown was coming to an end... I don't know. We'll see how it goes this time.

It's so hard because, even today, when we were together just talking about business stuff, we got along so well and were so comfortable together. He got me some chocolates out of the cupboard to eat and told me that I could only have one until I had a good dinner... There are so many things that are still the same, yet so many painful things that are different. I guess I should be grateful for whatever he is able and willing to give to me right now.

Quick question (just in case it ever comes up so that I'm not frantically posting here for help when it does!): If H does happen to come home one night in the future, what do I do? He did this unexpectedly one night in January, and it was wonderful. I made sure to ask him what he wanted from me, and it ended up that we ML twice that night. It was strained and a bit awkward, but it was still so nice. He actually held me, something I yearned for so much during these past two weeks that he kept shying away from. He would get into bed, turn over away from me, and would not cuddle with me. He was always a cuddler, and I love that about him. I will never take that for granted again when I get it back...

At any rate, what do you think I should do if this happens again? I feel like in my heart it will (maybe it's just wishful thinking at this point, which is okay by me). But I want to make sure that I handle it right. On the one hand,I don't want to push him away and not ML to him if he wants to since he already feel so rejected before this all happened. On the other hand, the last two weeks didn't go so well when we acted like nothing happened, so I'm not sure if it's wise... It was also really hard on me and I backslid quite a bit when he came home for the one night and we had such a nice night and then he went right back to her the next night...

Thoughts?

I'm already feeling better today (I think I'm just so overloaded that I'm finally just numb). Thank you so much for helping me through this day! I hope tomorrow I will wake up with a renewed sense of strength to keep working on ME. I know I have a long road ahead of me, but what is more important to fight for than my marriage?

[2940831]

Thanks for your advice, Iluvme. I'm sorry that that happened to you.

Fortunately I guess, I handle all of the finances for us, both personally and in our business. (How wonderful it is to see his personal credit card charges that I know he's taking her out to dinner...)

I'll see how the dust settles with this over the next few weeks or so. I honestly think we would handle any sort of separation of our business fairly and respectfully but, you're absolutely right, anything can happen. For me, if I were to consult with an attorney this soon, I think I would throw up... I'm not saying it's not the right thing to do; it's just too hard this soon. I'm not ready to do that quite yet. If I feel like things are starting to take a downhill slide in regard to our business, I will do that if needed.

Regarding the refinancing, I have control of the houses as far as the ownership of them, and the refinances would be in just my name. So hopefully no issues there. It is partly because of the entanglement with ownership and loans that I felt like it would be best just to sell everything and each take half if it comes to that. We have a lot of great properties with a lot of potential that would be great to hold onto, but for reasons I've already stated, I just don't feel like I want to keep them with him. It just hurts too much. We bought them together in efforts to work towards OUR dreams and goals. I do not want to keep working on them to have him shatter the dreams that I still want and share the successed with someone else instead... I just don't think I can do that.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I do really appreciate it. I will keep my eye on things and will take the precaution if it seems necessary.

[imLIN]

Do you have a calendar that is visible in the office....mark it with a big red X....visit parents....something he can see daily as a reminder without YOU doing it....one thing that H told me once and a C confirmed this...in my "handling" things I treated H more like my child then my H...don't treat him like your child...make him responsible for himself...I thought my H liked me taking control and making sure things got done...another eye opener....he hated it because he felt that I was doing it because I thought he wasn't capable of doing it...so becareful about "doing too much"

As far as the intimacey things go....because this is an issue with him try and be warm and inviting...taking some initiative he suggests things....he might welcome your willingness to please him and yourself....let him know you are desiring this too...DHEA helps a lot with that....it is not an herb but a naturally occuring pre-hormone...it helps to balance the hormonal productions in our brains...or something like that...read up on it so YOU know....you can buy over the counter but like I said if you can find a pharmacist that does compounding that is the best way....but then you need a Rx because they are compounding it for you specifically....

The marriage is not over....until there is something definite you don't have to make any business decisions...just keep things going because if/when you get back together you want to have this in place...you don't want to have to start over...

My feeling is that he told you it was over so you would quit the questioning of him all the time....if he says it is over then you have to accept that and he will get the breathing room he needs/wants....you are wearing him out with "talks"....just let things happen...don't question it...don't over analyze it...he is just a man and right now he is confused....don't make it more confusing for him by bombarding him with more questions...

If he decides not to visit parents then just let it go...don't ask if you should go....don't call the parents and tell them anything...let him be a big boy...if he doesn't call I am sure they will call him....you HAVE TO LET HIM FALL DOWN...you can't stop the progression of what is happening to him...it is his journey...and because of his....YOU have your own journey...and that my friend is where you MUST KEEP YOUR FOCUS!!!

Do you have children?....I didn't see any mention of children so I was just curious....how old are you and H...is this a first marriage for you both???....it helps to know these things...

I am 45 now, H is almost 49....we have been married 27 years...together almost 30 years....we were high school sweethearts....actually he had graduated when I entered...but that is where we met...we had a mutual friend in common...my old b/f who I was still friends with....he went on to marry a girl who became my best friend, they got divorced and I matched her up with my brother who was recently divorced....they have now been married for 23 years...

Get some good sleep...and I will check in tomorrow as I can....remember you have some homework of your own to work on....start taking the steps to a NEW AND IMPROVED YOU!!!!

[runningoutoftime]

DHEA is over the counter. I actually use it on my skin. Good stuff!

[imLIN]

Yes it is over the counter...but for a very consistant pure form it is best to get it from a compounding pharmacy...I know mine does mail order across the country if your interested...

Greenfield Pharmacy, Oceanside, California

You can probably fax a Rx or mail and then they will send it...

My doctor said he didn't think it would do any good but he at least wrote the script for me to get it....and it did wonders for awakening my sex drive...and just an overall well feeling...more energy...

[2940831]

Hello there --

Lin, thank you again for all of your advice and encouragement yesterday. It helped me so much.

I did get a better night's sleep last night. I had a hard time dozing off but when I did slept until about 5, then woke up with a bad headache and took some medicine and fell back asleep until around 9. Got up and showered, put on something a little sexy :), and went up to our job site. I knew H was going to be there around 10, so wanted to run into him. I did, and he was very cordial to me. He asked me if I'd been tanning, said I looked more tan. We talked some business stuff for a while and were very pleasant to each other. Then he left and said he was going to go up to our office for a while. But when I got to the office, he wasn't there.

So I was bad and snooped and found his car over at OW's house. My heart broke in two. I knew that that is probably where he was, but now it's confirmed... Now I just have to go back to the "no snooping" rule. Before, when I stopped snooping completely, I felt so much better. It still hurt to know that I knew he was probably there, but I at least didn't have the mental pictures in my mind to back it up. I have to do that again, or I will drive myself crazy.

It's funny; one minute I'll feel so overwhelmed and upset that I don't even know how to go on, and the next minute I'll have positive thoughts in my mind about working on myself and knowing that we WILL get through this together, that I just need to be patient and let this A run its course and show him a person he wants to come back to. My "down" moments are so severely down, and my "semi-up" moments are just okay and don't last for long... I hope that will improve. Hopefully over the next week or so as I see how the dust kind of settles with all of this I'll have a better feeling for where this may be going. We'll see.

So right now I'm feeling horrible because I know he's over there enjoying a nice Sunday with her and I'm here at the office struggling to get my mind in gear so that I can get some much-needed work done. I shouldn't have snooped. I've just got to stop that, and I know it. I know he's probably there because he needs to just be with someone and relax that he enjoys being with and doesn't hound him all the time and that that is what I'm competing with. So I just have to work on being someone that he wants to be around more often. I just feel like I really messed up when he came home for those two weeks. I backslid so much with pressuring him and chasing him again. But, at the same time, I know his heart wasn't into giving us another chance yet, so I need to stop blaming myself. And until he's ready to completely let her go and give us another chance, there's nothing I can do about it. And it's best if he takes this time to explore his feeling for her and works through that and hopefully let's it die its own death rather than force himself to let her go when he still cares so much, right? I just don't know...

So today I'm going to just work on getting absorbed in my work and working on getting caught up. The sting of seeing his car will fade, but right now I'm just so upset. I feel like I'm starting all over again like back in November. I came so far since then and went through so much and felt like we had made so much progress, and now I feel like I have to start all over again...

As for the calendar thing, I have a calendar in my office that I could write the trip on, but he doesn't really see that that often, so I don't think he'd pay attention. He uses a planner, but I don't want to tell him to write it in there... Any other suggestions? I did go ahead and write the trip on my calendar in my office just now, just in case he might see it... But what should I do if he doesn't bring it up? Like I said, I don't want to be discourteous to his parents by not giving them notice if we are not going to go...

We also have a trip planned to Vegas at the end of March. I got it for his for a Valentine's Day present. I just put that on my calendar, too. I'm not even going to bring that one up for several weeks, and if he decides he doesn't want to go with me, maybe I'll still go with a friend or something??? That would probably be good for me, and it might be good for me to just be away from him for a few days...

As far as me "doing too much for him," I guess, like you, that I've always sort of been that way. I'm a nurturer and like to take care of people. Maybe he just hasn't ever said anything about it, but he hasn't ever told me that he felt like I was treating him like a child and that he wanted to take care of more things...

As far as intimacy, I have told him that during the two weeks we were together I really enjoyed ML to him, but, as I told you, he said that he felt like I was only doing it because I thought that's what he wanted and that that didn't make him feel very good... I can't really do a lot about this issue now with the current situation. So if he does come home on a night, do I ask him what he wants? Do I just approach him and initiate something myself without asking? Do I sleep in the spare bedroom and wait for him to approach me?

I will look more into the DHEA. I have an appointment with my doctor this week to see if he can prescribe some sort of muscle relaxers or something for me to help with my stress and lack of focus. I will ask him about the DHEA at the same time. He did a bunch of tests on me years ago when I looked into figuring out my low sex drive, but the tests showed that I didn't have any hormones off balance or anything. But if you said it helped you anyway, I want to try it!

You know what helped me sleep a little better last night? When you wrote to me "The marriage is not over." Even though that was YOU saying it and not him, it helped so much just to see those words from someone! You're right, it's not over until it's over, and it's my job to push it in the opposite direction of where it's at now. Hopefully that will get easier with each passing day as this initial fallout continues to go into the past.

I hope you're right that he told me it was over so that the questioning would stop. I could feel myself being desperate and needy over the past few weeks when he was home and the beginning of last week - desperate for answers and some direction and understanding of what the heck was going on. I know that was wrong, but at the same time, it was wrong for him to come home and be with me when his heart wasn't in it. He told me so many things, like that we were going on this trip together as a "couple" and would stay that way when we got back, that he would keep sleeping at home, that we were going to make this work forever if we could, etc. I guess my hopes were just so high, and then his heart was not in it. It was not right for him to do that to me, and most of my bad actions that I took were as a direct result of him not being "here" with me emotionally. It's not all his fault either, but I've got to stop completely blaming myself for all of this.

As far as our situation, I am 35 and he is 34. First marriages for both of us. No kids. Like you, we also met through a mutual friend. He keeps telling me that he wants things to be like they were when we first met, so I keep racking my brain to think back to those times and the way it was. I just wish I had the chance to be with him to do those things again. I just have to have faith that someday I will have a chance if I play my cards correctly now. We have very solid families - both come from very good homes and are very, very close to both of our families. I love and adore his family so much, and my parents adore him more than I can say. It would absolutely tear all of them up if we didn't stay together, which is part of what makes this so hard. I know ultimately they all just want us both to be happy, but it still would be so hard on them. I was thinking the other day about his parents and what they would say if he told them we weren't going to stay together. I KNOW his mom would probably ask him what he had done to try and fix things, and what would he say? He really hasn't done anything, and THAT IS THE PROBLEM! He would probably say that he had asked me to change things for years and that it just didn't work out... I don't know.

So, on with trying to get my focus today! Please help me, as I have so incredibly much to do with work and am so overwhelmed, and at the same time, I just do not care one ounce about it! That's a horrible feeling. I love what I do, but I have been so strained and stressed the past several months that I just haven't enjoyed it like I used to, and that's so hard. I just want to be happy again so badly...

[imLIN]

Your happiness is up to you....bottom line

Look at the positive things...H noticed you, comment about looking tanned...H was cordial before he left....

And YES STOP SNOOPING!!!....I know how hard this is...I went so far as to activate GPS on my H's phone because he had moved away...I drove myself crazy until one night my D19 asked me why I was tracking him....I said I needed to know where he was...and she said WHY?...I realized it was about control...and I had lost control...and couldn't make him come home...but I could sure continue to drive him away...so I got rid of the GPS...I really had more peace then before trying to figure out why he was where he was at that time of day....it drove me nuts!

As for the trip...keep the calendar in sight....when it gets to that day be ready....if he has forgotten and changes his mind so be it...if he remembers and wants to go alone...so be it...if he remembers and decides to go and still wants you to go...so be it....UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES do you call his parents and explain any absenses!!!....Let him do it...and if he doesn't...they will call him!!!

If he doesn't say anything about the March Vegas trip....just get ready and go...have a friend go with you...and have a great time!!!....

Just keep control of you...you can do that...stop questioning and inquiring...now is not the time to figure anything out...I know my H went to counseling because I begged him to go...it did no good...he would take me out on the weekends because I asked him to thinking he needed to see me and then he would want to be with me...it did no good...when he moved away that was his passive way of saying I DON'T WANT TO SEE YOU OR BE WITH YOU...I had to accept that he was going out on his own without me...I had to let go...it was hard but now I think that had I kept the pressure on him he might have come back only to leave for good...or he may have not come back at all...by backing off I allowed him to work on his own issues....while I worked on mine...then we did start seeing each other again there was a noticable difference in me...one that made him think for the first time "maybe"....that was all I needed to keep going...

Now he LOVES ME!