I posted on piecing for a while, as H had come home after being with OW more or less every night for almost 3 months. He was only home for a little over 2 weeks (9 days of which we were out of town together on a business/part pleasure trip, so he didn't have a choice to leave). He left again a few nights ago.
Long story very short: Been married a 9.5 years. Have had a paltry sex life for a lot of it, but getting worse over the last few years probably. I had a low sex drive. He seemed to be bringing it up less and less the past few years, so I thought maybe it wasn't bothering him as much. On the contrary, it was pushing him out of wanting to be with me anymore, which I honestly had not idea it was getting that bad. I would never have let him be so miserable had I just understood...
Anyway, I found out mid November that he was having an A with OW. A few weeks or so later, he told me that he had decided to give our M another chance but that he just didn't know when or how. So, I waited... We already had the trip I mentioned above planned at that time, and he kept telling me that we were going to go together as a "couple" and to keep the plans in place, so I did.
Well, he did finally come home, but it was almost 3 months after he left and just a week or so before our trip. I had been doing a decent (though not perfect) job of DB'ing starting mid January or so. And I guess I thought that when he finally did come home we were going to start piecing, but that didn't happen. He didn't want to talk about the R at all or the OW, so I had no idea what he had told her before he came home, what our plans were as far as working on our M, etc. It was gut-wrenching. He said he just wanted to for now pretend like this hadn't happened. He also told me that he wanted me to want him more. So I made every effort to ML to him as much as I could and to work on my sex drive. I tried to be supporting, loving, caring, give him his space the best I could, etc. But you could cut the tension in the air with a knife. I think I felt worse when he came home than right before he came home. I guess I was getting used to him not being home and was getting into my routine and was just waiting for him to come home as he promised, so I at least had that to hold on to and keep me going.
The problem was, I was ready to dive in and figure this thing out. He physically came home, but emotionally he was just not here. Although we did ML several times, both before we left and during the trip, he also turned me down a few times(never heard of before this), and he was just noticeably distant and seemed so incredibly unhappy. He was short with me a lot, and I felt like I was constantly walking on eggshells around him.
This state of emotional dishevel for me unfortunately sent me back into some bad ways of pushing him to talk to me, probably being too needy, etc. He never once asked me what I needed from him to work on this, and I asked him several times what I should do to support him. I finally told him a couple of things that he could do to help me (like holding my hand while we were out), and he did do that consistently, which was nice. But he still just was not "there."
We did have a nice trip away, but it was strained. I know that was to be expected. And, looking back, I don't think it was wise for him to just come home a week or so before we left and then spend that much time together like that. It was probably too much, too soon.
The night before we came home from our trip, all hell broke loose. He was talking to someone on my cell phone, and his cell phone rang. I picked it up to get it for him and just missed the call. So I (innocently, I promise) opened up his phone to check the missed call so that I could tell him who had called. Well, I saw on that missed call list that the OW had sent him two missed text messages that day. I did not scroll to them to see what they said - just merely got sick to my stomach immediately, started shaking, and wanted to throw up.
When he got off of my phone, I asked him about it and asked him if we could talk. He asked what I wanted to talk about! At any rate, I don't want this post to get too long and drawn out, but basically we ended up talking for probably 6 hours altogether throughout the night and got hardly any sleep. It was heart-wrenching.
He told me that he had not fully ended it with her yet, that he had told her that he was going to take some time to sort through some things and that he was going on this trip, etc. I didn't ask him if he even told her that he was going on the trip with me, so I don't know if she even knew that. He told me for probably 2 1/2 months consistently (without wavering) that he had decided to give us another chance. I asked him why he hadn't told her that, and he said he just didn't want to hurt anyone. I asked him if it was because he didn't know for sure if he was going to give us another chance, and he said he didn't know...
So we hashed through a lot of things but didn't really come to any resolution. In the morning, I was so distraught and just wanted to find some sort of common ground to go forward on. So I asked him if we could just go on on the premise that we would not make any rash decisions and would work on our M slowly and that I would work on backing off of him and that he would work on us when he was ready. He agreed.
We had a nice but strained last day there, and my stomach was in knots all day. He still held my hand when we were out. I asked him a few follow-up questions from our conversation the night before (I know I should have just let it go, but I was in such a bad place and still needed closure). He wasn't defensive and answered my questions, and I tried to just ask a question or two and then just let it go for the time being.
We took an evening flight home that night and got home early in the morning last weekend. We drove home, and he immediately got ready and went to an appointment and then to visit the contractor who does work for us in our business. He told me early evening that he was on his way home to get some rest, as we were both so tired from the last few days. When I got home, he was asleep on the couch. I tried to wake him to get him to go to bed, but he wouldn't budge. So I just let him sleep there, and I went to sleep in the guest bedroom so that if he did come to bed he wouldn't have to sleep with me. I wasn't sure if he had intentionally fallen asleep on the couch. He did come to bed later that night.
The next day (Monday) we both worked all day. We have a very successful business together, and we are the only ones in the business. Later that night, he said he was going to work really late at our job site. I went over there around 9pm to go over some work items with him, and before I left I told him I needed to ask him a few things. I know, I shouldn't have. I just felt so dang unsettled inside and had been sick to my stomach all day. I just wanted to somehow feel better and be able to focus again.
When we had our long talk on our trip, one of the things he asked me about is how I felt if we didn't stay together as a couple but stayed together as business partners. I had responded that I didn't know if I could contribute everything I do to our business only to have him share that with someone else.
Well, I asked him on Monday night if that was what he wanted, to not being together romantically but to be in business together. He said that that was obviously something he was thinking about and sorting through. In the end, he agreed to keep working on us to see how it would go. He said he probably wasn't going to come home that night, that he was going to work all night at the job site (uh-oh - red flag). So I left really upset and tried to call him when I was almost home - he didn't answer. So I drove back up to the job site and just told him that I hoped he would put himself in my position and consider how hard it would be on me for him not to come home at all. He got really upset at me - huge backfire. I had asked him earlier if he was going to stay with the OW, and he said no. But I just wanted him to somehow open his eyes and consider my feelings, that for him to just stay out all night, even if he was working, would just tear me apart. But my merely trying to point that out to him did not go over so well...
At any rate, he didn't come home that night, but he did sleep at our office (I snooped...).
The next day, I gave him his space and did not have any contact with him until around 4pm, when I called him for some business stuff. He was kind of short with me (nothing really new). I asked him if we were "okay," and he said yes. He told me he had a meeting at 530pm, and he agreed to call me when he was done. I also had a meeting that night, and I got done at around 7pm. I called him to let him know I was done with my meeting. I got his voicemail and just left a message. He never called me back that night.
When I got home that night (Tuesday), I came home to find that he had packed a bag again of clothes and toiletries for himself... I was absolutely devastated. How could he do that to me again after only a few weeks of being home? And how could he do that having told me that we were okay just hours earlier (I know he had already been home and packed his bag by then). Why couldn't he have told me in person or even left a note? It was horrible, and I just cried and cried.
Wednesday, he fell off the face of the planet. He didn't show up at the job site all day, the guys at the job site couldn't reach him, etc. I did not call him at all or see him either. I snooped to see if his car was at OW's house but never found it (doesn't mean I just didn't see it). He didn't come home that night either.
Thursday morning I ran into him at the job site. I asked if he was okay and he said yes. I asked if he felt like talking that day, and he said maybe we could grab lunch. I asked him if we were okay, and he laughed. I asked him why he was laughing, and he said that that was all he could do at this point. But he did say that we were okay.
Things got hectic and we didn't end up having a talk at lunch, but we did talk for a little while over the phone in the afternoon. I told him my thoughts about us taking things too fast and that I wondered if he would be open to us slowing things down and just working on being friends for now and working on the R once some healing had taken place. He said that might be better than what we did. He said he was just sorting through his feelings and thinking about the last couple of weeks and few months and few years. We left the conversation at that. I asked him if he was coming home that night (Thursday), and he said he didn't know (when I knew meant no). And he didn't. I snooped again and didn't see his car at her house. Yesterday when I went to our office it looked as if he had slept there, but I had gone to the office at about 1:30 in the morning (snooping), and he wasn't there then.
Before I finish the story, I DO know that snooping is very bad for me to be doing. I had stopped doing that a few weeks into January before, and I felt so much better. But I guess it was easier back then because I knew he was staying with her the majority of the time, so there was no mystery in it. And it just hurt to have any sort of visual verification of that, so I gave it up and felt a lot better.
But now, I DIDN'T know what he was up to for sure, so I felt the need to snoop again. I just wanted to know for sure what I was up against.
On Thursday night, I got hardly no sleep, and a strange strength came over me at some point that I fed off of most of the night. I decided I wanted to just ask him if he was with her again so that I could make some decisions of my own. Then I started to go down the path of what I wanted to do about the business if we weren't together. I found a quiet strength and felt at peace, but I was probably just delirious.
At any rate, I sat down with him yesterday (Friday) and told him that I was working on making some decisions and needed to ask him a few questions. He said okay. I told him that I needed him to be honest with me, even if it hurt me. He agreed. I asked him if he had been staying with her, and he said no. I asked him if he had seen her, and he said yes. I asked him if that meant that he had made his decision then, that he was going to be with her and not me, or if he was still sorting through things.
In the end, he said that he didn't want to be married to me anymore and that he didn't know what to do about the business, etc. He said he was emotionally just done with us and that he wanted to be with her. I asked him if he was just saying that because he was upset (he told me at the beginning of our conversation tht he was tired of having these conversations). He said no, that it was harder for him to say he was done, that the easier thing to say would be that he would be willing to work on us.
Anyway, we talked for a while longer, and ultimately he agreed (at least for now) that we could stay married and work on being friends and work on the business together and see if anything sparked in the future that we could build on. He also said he was going to continue his R with the OW in the meantime and that he wasn't going to tell me what he was doing and when, etc.
Wow - talk about a sucker punch. I was absolutely devasted.
What do I do now? I know I need desperately do go back to hard core LRT and DB'ing. I do know that. I know I need to GAL again. I honestly feel like that if somehow that R can die its own death that we can work through this. But how in the world do I hold on in the meantime? I know I need to do things to be more attractive to him than her, especially not pressuring him anymore and having conversations like these that make him hurt and angry.
I just feel so lost inside. Am I wrong to still have hope? I feel crazy to even think about agreeing to let him sleep with OW and stay "friends" with him and work with him everyday, but isn't that a small price to pay if our M can somehow work out in the end?
I didn't sleep much again last night and feel horrible again today. I'm desperate to somehow find a way to feel better. My work is suffering big time - I just can't concentrate. It's been like that since November when I found out about all of this. I keep doing the minimal amount just to get things done, and things are starting to fall through the cracks. I was hoping once we went on our trip and he came home that I could finally settle my insides and get back into gear, but now we just backslid so far....
Enough of a saga for now... I'm sure there are details that I may need to fill you in on later. (For instance, when I started DB'ing fairly well in January, he DID come home two separate nights and stayed the night and ML to me - baby steps?) I think he still cares but cares more about her right now and is cutting me off because it's easier.
PLEASE HELP ME! I know what you're going to say as far as needing to DB and LRT and keep my distance and GAL. I know all of those things, and I will work towards that. I'm just in the early stages of this horrible conversation yesterday, as he's never told me that he had decided that he was just done and didn't want to be married to me anymore. Was he just lashing out? I don't know. Please help me get through this initial pain. I hurt so much...
Reading this reminds me so much of my own sitch...however, my H didn't come home once he left...for about a year and a half...
I got the same thing about working on things...I will say that your asking "are we okay"....not a good question...becuase you KNOW YOU'RE NOT OKAY....
All I can say is what you know...you need to back off of him big time...I know how hard this is...I had been with my H since I was 15 and he left me when I was 43....I had never lived on my own....went from parents to him...so talk about shock..
I cornered him on conversations like you did and finally got the same answers...I don't want to be married to you anymore...I can't deal with it...funny but there was business involved with us also that would keep us in contact....he was okay with this too....but then the more I pushed the more he began to question this..
It finally came down to him moving away...and not replying to anything from me or our son...this was devistating but in the long run I think it was good because it FORCED me to stop snooping, stop R talk, stop asking him to come home, stop asking about OW....if he wasn't answering my email, phone calls and I didn't know where he lived there was nothing for me to do but finally GAL...
He was gone for a long time....in that time I really worked on ME and was able to truly become someone I was happy with...and in the end someone who H felt he could now begin to "try" and work on things with...
Fast forward a year or so and he just told me on our 27th anniversary the words I had not heard for over 3 years (at least not when he was sober, and he is in recovery now)...I love you!
So anyway, my point is....do what YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO DO...do it for YOU...you can't go wrong....and what ever it takes to give him space...give it to him...stop snooping...let him go so that when he returns it will be on HIS time when HE is ready...not because of guilt...
Thanks so much for replying, imLIN. It helps so much to know that others have been where I'm at and have made it. I'm so happy that you held the course and that it worked out for you. Thanks for passing along some much-needed strength to me today.
I finally made it in to the office today. We actually have a home office away from our home that we both work out of, by ourselves... Difficult. He said he was going to be here this afternoon. We'll see.
My heart is just tearing apart today. I hurt so much. I just feel at moments like I just can't take it anymore and feel so desperate for something - anything - to just ease the pain. I remember feeling this way when I first found out about the A, and I know it got easier with time. But I also know that last time he told me within a few weeks that he had decided to give us another chance, and I think that made it so much easier, because I could see a light at the end of the tunnel.
This time, it feels different in that now he's telling me that he doesn't want to be with me. Do you think that was just a defensive mechanism because he is so tired of having the R talks with me and just doesn't want to do that part anymore? He did tell me yesterday early in our conversation when I was asking him if he had made his decision that he said he had decided part of it. I asked him what he meant by that, and he said he knew he didn't want to have these conversations anymore. He also told me later in the conversation that I debate him all the time when we talk, that I always have. It drives him crazy. He's always told me that whenever we talk about any sort of R issue he feels like I back him into a corner. I don't know exactly what he means by that, and I honestly don't mean to be that way. I want to find a way to make him feel safe to communicate with me. He affectionately calls me the "birddog" in our business because my personality is to get to the bottom of things, never take "no" for an answer, keep working at it until I can succeed at what I want. I was thinking about this last night, and I guess that I've let that carry over to our R side as well. If I ask him a question and don't get the answer I want, I ask it a different way until I do get the answer I want instead of just accepting what he said the first time.
He also says that I twist his words around. For example, yesterday, as I told you, he told me that he was done with our M. He said he didn't want to work on it anymore. But at the end of our conversation, he agreed to let us stay married and just be friends and slow down and see if there was any spark that ignited that we could build off of in the future. Obviously this is in direct conflict with him saying that he is done with our M and doesn't want to be married to me anymore.
So I brought that up and asked him which was the true answer. He said that he would wait it out but got frustrated that I kept asking about it...
I want to work on my communication style regarding our R so that I can allow him to feel like he can talk to me without feeling cornered and pressured and analyzed. Do you have any suggestions of what I can do to work on this? I know it is going to be a key element if we are to get through this, and I honestly want to get better at communication with him. Whenever we talk about our R, he just shuts down. He sits there and says mostly nothing while I foam at the mouth. I don't know what to do, so I just keep talking. I ask him questions that he'll usually answer, but it's usually just a yes or no answer rather than him expanding on his feelings.
However, when we talk about our business, we can talk for hours, and he contributes equally to the conversation. He's told me in our last few "talks" that he knows I need someone who can communicate about the R better and that it's not fair to me that he can't give that to me. The problem is that I know it's partly MY fault that he feels like he can't communicate with me, because of the way I make him feel. So how can I work on fixing that and showing him that I'm doing so WITHOUT getting into a R talk?
I also have a few other questions that I need help on.
1.) He told me yesterday that if my decision was that I didn't want to have a business relationship with him if we weren't married that it was probably best if we start sorting through figuring out what to do with the business now rather than letting it get even more tangled up. He said that if we did slow down and stayed married and just waited this thing out, as I was requesting, and and if it didn't work out after that I was just going to want to end the business, too, that he would prefer to just end it now. But then at the end of the conversation he said that it would be okay to wait it out, even if that was my ultimate decision to end the business if it didn't work out with us. So, as you can see, again there is some different answers happening, so of course I question him about it 50 million times to make sure he keeps giving me the same answer in the end...
So, my question is, at this point it honestly makes me sick to my stomach to think about contributing all that I do to our business only for him to share any financial and emotional success with her. I feel like he wants his cake and to eat it, too. As he told me when this all first happened, he wants to spend his personal time with her and his business time with me. Well, isn't that just perfect for him? In the meantime, my heart is tearing into a million pieces as I have to work next to the man I love and have my personal life in the toilet. Yes, I want more than anything for him to be happy and successful, as I know he wants for me. But, I don't feel like I want to CONTRIBUTE to that, to him getting the best of me and breaking my heart at the same time. Is it wrong for me to feel that way? Am I being selfish? Is it just me being manipulative, thinking that if I tell him I can't be side by side doing the business with him while he's sharing his heart with someone else he will somehow change his mind and give us another chance to try to save the business, too? Since I'm so involved with this emotionally, I can't seem to put my finger on the right answer here. I was hoping someone looking in from the outside who knows about DB'ing principles could help me sort through this. I DO want him to be happy, but the thought of me contributing directly to that only for him to share that with someone who helped contribute to all of these problems we are having literally just makes me sick. I'm afraid that if I agree to do this (maybe even for now?) that it's making it too easy on him to stay with her. But, on the other hand, if I tell him I'm not willing to do it, I'm afraid he's hurting so much right now that he will just say to heck with it and let the business go, too...
So, do I tell him now that I've decided that I do not want to stay his business partner if we aren't able to work through this and that I need to know whether that changes his decision on whether he's willing to wait this out? Or, since he already told me yesterday that he was willing to wait it out even if that was my decision (even though earlier in that same conversation he told me he would just as soon start figuring out the business stuff now if that's the direction we were going to go), do I just let it go and keep working hard on the business while he sleeps with someone else? Help!!!
2.) Is it best for me now to just ride this thing out, not bring up the R at ALL (to the best of my ability), and act like nothing is wrong? Do I just work on getting back to being a happy person and letting him see that? I just worry so much that if I do that it's just making it easy for him to stay with her - because there is no conflict with me. He's getting everything he wants - R with her and business with me. Why would he want to change that?
3.) We have a trip scheduled to fly to see his parents. We are scheduled to leave two weeks from yesterday and to spend a few days with them. I scheduled this AFTER the blowout in November. I had asked him about it, and he said it would be okay if we planned a trip down there. As my usual self, I questioned him 50 million times about it to "make sure" that it was okay and that I kept getting the same answer, and he said it was, to go ahead and schedule the flight. I even asked him if he wanted me to wait until he at least came home first, and he said no, to schedule it. So I did.
I asked him when we had our long talk on our trip if he still wanted to go, and he said he wanted to make sure that we had all of our ducks in a row with the business and that we'd see. I asked him if he wanted to go by himself without me, and he said he'd think about it.
When we got home from our trip last weekend, I asked him again about it, and he said that we could still go and that I could go, too.
I asked him again about it yesterday and told him that I would still really like to go if he was open to it. He said he thought it was more important to get everything going well with the business. I asked him if we did if we could go, and he asked if we could talk about it later.
So, what do I do about this? Do I keep asking him about it? Do I just cancel it (don't want to do that)? I think if we spend some time with his parents it may help. Both of our parents have been married for almost 40 years, and that is part of why this is so hard on me. I never even imagined that I wouldn't stay married forever. We both love our parents more than I can express. I'm hopeful that being around them might help? Although he did tell me around Thanksgiving time (fresh from this all blowing up) that he knew his parents would not approve of what he's done and that it was hard when we went over there together for Thanksgiving - he was really anxious to leave. I'm not sure if that initial pain might have subsided a bit to where it would be more helpful rather than hurtful at this point? I don't know... If he does say he does not want to go, would it be wrong for me to still go by myself? It would be awkward for me, but I guess in a silly sort of way it would maybe help me to feel closer to him to be around them... And I love them so very much. It hurts so much to think about not being in their lives as much anymore at holidays, family gatherings, etc. FYI - no one (unless he's told someone and is lying to me about it) knows about this - no friends, family, colleagues. No one.
So what do you think about this trip? What should I do?
4.) Finally for now, could someone looking in from the outside give me an honest take on what you think is going on with him? Do you think he may come out of this if I give it time? Do you think he's just buying time to sort the business stuff out and that he's never going to snap out of this? Is he just telling me what I want to hear? Why does he tell me one thing and then the next minute agree to do something else? Is it because of my poor communication "birddog" skills? It would help me to hold on if someone could tell me they had been through these same things and had made it through it.
Thanks again for listening and for all of your advice.
Wow...you sure do lay it all out....well here goes (because I can so totally relate to you on personal level...except H called me the "pitbull")....this is coming from experience..
One question for you...Do you feel like when you ask a question or give an example of something and H answers that maybe H didn't understand what you meant because the answer isn't what YOU had expected him to say?
I felt this way and the way you described above...yes the asking 50 million times...just changing the words around..
I will tell you this....YOU HAVE TO CHANGE THAT....it is hard but not impossible...I used to drive my H nuts...and when he left he did/said much the same things yours is saying...we can stay married....we can get divorced....yes he knows what he wants....no he is still figuring out what he wants....no he doesn't want to talk about the R.....yes things might work out and he will tell me later....sound familiar???...he also didn't tell anyone we had separated....no friends, family, colleagues...no sound really familiar???
Start NOW...STOP questioning him...STOP snooping on him....STOP being all sad and soppy around him....if you can't do this at work then work different hours....
You can avoid R talk...you can do this....you MUST BACK OFF....if you don't he will definitely finish things with you...he is tired....exausted...and OW is a breath of fresh air...H told me how I was different from HER....boy did it take my breath away...I had to learn to be a better person or I was going to loose the one person I had chosen to spend my life with...
I would say about the trip...stop asking him...he has said you can go...so go...do what ever it takes to be quiet, happy looking, interested in what he has to say (without QUESTIONS), don't try and clarify anything he says....
You have your work cut out for you...as did I...my H told me he never asked me to change because he didn't think I could...and he thought he could put up with it....then he exploded....
I will help you however I can...but for now work on being meek, mild, and having self-control!
Wow, thanks so much, Lin. You are helping me today more than I can explain. I wish I could hug you! Thanks so much.
It sounds like you have been through a very similar situation. I admire you so much that you continued to hold on and made it. You give me strength and courage. Please continue to do so! I am so happy for you that your H finally told you he loves you again. And the thought of knowing it took years feels like an insurmountable mountain for me right now... God help me.
What tools did you use to help with your communication style? Can you offer some advice on this?
Was your H similar in that he would just shut down on R talks? Mine can't even LOOK at me when we talk. He plays with his fingernails or tears the label off of a bottle or something. (BTW, he's not an alcoholic by any means, but he seems to feel the need to drink during our conversations - I guess it relaxes him. So I drink, too, (not excessively, but just grab one with him), to help ease the tension.) One of the things he told me about the OW is that she is more outgoing than me. So I've been working on letting loose more when we go out, having more fun and not being so tense, drinking every once in a while (again, not in excess), etc. He hasn't said anything about it, but I'm sure he's noticed.
I told him yesterday that it hurt me so much to know that I waited 3 months for him while he said he was ultimately going to give us another chance, and then when he did come home, he didn't give us a fair chance - that all I got was 2 weeks. He said something like that he didn't know what he was expecting but something different. He also said that it's either right or it's not. This hurt so much, as I have been learning so much about how to heal this and that you HAVE to work on R's to make them work, that the initial butterfly stages are temporary and after that there's work to do to keep the passion alive. He says so many things that I know are normal to feel for where we are at, but he's adamant about not getting help. He says it's "not him." But he DID go to some R classes with me years ago, and we had a great time. I think he's just not in a place right now emotionally to be open to that, and he's just making excuses.
I also told him this is so hard on me because I didn't fully understand just how upset he was about our lack of sex life, and now that my eyes are obviously wide open to it, I WANT to try harder to be better at this, and I'm frustrated that he won't even give me that chance, after all we've been through. He said it was too late...
I just have to keep reminding myself that, like your H, he keeps going back and forth on things. And although yesterday's conversation was horrible, I have to keep the faith that if I did talk to him about it again today, tomorrow, or next week, he could say the exact opposite. As excited as I get when he gives me hope (and then changes his mind and dashes it), I have to learn to take the bad things he says that same way, that he could say something positive the next day. I need to stop getting my emotions so tied up in what he says. He's obviously very confused right now, and my "birddog" ways of pushing him are just making him say something - anything - to get through the conversation.
What do you think about the business side of this? Do I just keep on plugging away and contributing to it for now and let him be with her? Or do I tell him that it's possible if we don't work out that I might not want to be in business with him anymore and see if that changes his mind about how he wants to proceed right now? But if I do that, he could say one thing and change his mind tomorrow. I'm so confused...
I haven't talked with him yet today. I feel almost like I'm having an out of body experience in that I don't feel whole - feel so desperate and sad and isolated - lonely. It's so hard to not being able to talk with family and friends about this. At the same time, WHEN we work this out (need to stay positive about this), it would be much too hard to face all of these people again and know that they know what happened. So, it's what needs to be for now. That is why I'm so grateful for this board and wonderful people like you.
I'm unfortunately not being productive today at work, but I just can't help it. I guess maybe I just need a day to get through some of these emotions and get them off my chest and just "be." Not the best use of my time as far as the business, but I just can't focus. I miss his touch and love so very much...
Thank you for listening and for your strength. Please continue to share what you went through with me. It really helps to know we have similar situations and personalities and that you made it. Thank you so much.
One question for you...Do you feel like when you ask a question or give an example of something and H answers that maybe H didn't understand what you meant because the answer isn't what YOU had expected him to say?
(BTW, how do you do that whole "quote" thing where you put someone else's quote in your reply? I fiddled with it but couldn't make it work...)
At any rate, I'm glad you asked me that question, as it made me think a lot. I think that what you stated may be part of it, but more so I think it's that when he doesn't give me the answer I WANT to hear, I keep grilling him and asking the question a different way and/or keep coming up with reasoning that I explain to him that I think will get him to believe and say what I do want to hear. Does that make sense? It's so hard, because he doesn't communicate with me about R issues. He mainly just answers questions I ask, and it's like pulling teeth. I have no doubt that a lot of that is just because of the way I communicate, but how do I change that dynamic? What worked for you? I just feel like I keep reasoning with him in hopes he will just see my point of view, because he doesn't speak up about how/why he has his point of view.
It helps me so much to have people ask me questions like you did about how I feel and how I do things, as he does not do that, and I want so desperately to get "critiqued" on what I'm doing so that I can improve. So thank you for asking me that. It really helps.
As for the business...leave it as it is...if you can work when he does fine or if you can schedule yourself to work when he isn't there...even better....
DON'T try and engage him in any serious talk...the business can be dealt with IF it needs to be later...
DON'T express your emotions....when you do it seems needy and pathetic...or as my H felt....guilt...he felt I was using guilt to get him back...guilt about my living situation, about the kids, about finances...these were REAL things but he thought I was just trying to make him feel guilty and he refused to have any part of it...
Just leave him be....most A's don't last...they are built on disfunction...if you fight it he will defend it...if you ignore it he might take a hard look at it and eventually see it as it is...
I know 2 weeks wasn't fair....but in reality he probably wasn't/isn't ready to WORK on this marriage...and until he is all you can do is work on you...
Now about how to make those changes...practice with people around you...even strangers...when someone cuts you off or is rude to you...STOP...and make sure you respond in a nice way...think maybe they are having a bad day....feel bad for them...but resist the urge to say something back...
If there is a discussion with someone and you asking questions...make sure you don't re-ask the same things in a different way....take the answers they give as what they mean...and let it go....resist the urge to be right....the more you practice this with everyone the easier it will be to do this with H...he is "tired" of the conflict...and if you truly look back and put yourself in HIS place....you will be able to understand...this doesn't make the A okay...it doesn't excuse it...but it does make you own your part of the M and why it is broken right now....
When you are in his presence...be more cheerful...hum a happy song if you have to....read joke books...watch funny movies to get you in a positive frame of mind...if he says something to you....just accept what he says...resist the urge to analyze it or question him about it....if you are out together...do as you have...work on being more outgoing...if it takes a glass of wine or a beer well then do that....it won't hurt as long as you don't over do...and sounds like you know how to handle it okay...
In time...try and be just a bit mysterious...sensuous...maybe dress a little sexy...go get a massage to make you feel great...
You are right in not involving others...it does make it VERY hard if there is a reconciliation later on...and you don't need that friction....
YOU CAN DO THIS....make a list if you need to....remind yourself each morning that you have positive changes to make for YOURSELF today...don't let anyone, anything distract you from YOUR PERSONAL MISSION...being the best person you can be...it is NEVER too late!!!
Lin, I just wanted to add one more thing about what you said about your H finally exploding...
My H has been asking me for years and years to work on my sex drive. It was our most common argument. (We hardly ever disagreed about anything.) But he would say it, we would discuss it briefly, usually saying the same things as all the other times, I would work on it for a short time and be better, and then things would go back to the way they were before. Mostly my fault - I should have worked harder to sustain it.
Well, I learned through my research that it's so very difficult for the one with the lower sex drive to understand what the one with the higher sex drive is really feeling. To me, our life was fine. It certainly wasn't perfect, and I missed spending time with him. (We work way too many hours in our business.) But, to me, we were going to be okay. I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE that he was this unhappy!
He's told me that he was "ready to cash in his chips," that he was done with us. I didn't feel even remotely close to that! Then, I guess this A was our form of the "explosion." Instead of coming to me and explaining to me the depth of his frustration and that he was feeling like he didn't want to be with me anymore, he instead found it with someone else.
The hard thing for me is that he DID TELL ME that he was unhappy about our sex life, but he's been telling me that for years, so I unfortunately didn't understand that it had gone to a much deeper level for him. For him, since it's difficult for him to talk about R issues, it took every ounce of his being to even bring this up to me, and to that end he feels like he DID tell me that he was unhappy. For me, since he does not communicate the depth of his feelings, I honestly didn't understand that it had gotten this bad.
So now I just want the chance to do things better since I finally truly understand the depth of his sadness regarding this issue. But I don't want to just do it for him; I want to do it for me, too. Michele talks about how vital it is to have a vibrant sex life. I WANT that; I just need to keep working on my issues with it, but I WANT TO. He told me when we were away on our trip that he feels like I'm just ML to him because I think HE wants me to, not because I really wanted to for myself. I asked him if there was something I said or did or something that I didn't say or do that made him feel that way, and he said that he didn't know. Again, it's so hard because he doesn't know how to give me guidance to change...
He also told me during our love making session that it was really important for me to have an orgasm when we ML and that that's all that he's EVER wanted. He usually always says during ML that he wants that, but I thought that it was more in the heat of the moment. I now understand that it's REALLY important to him that I do, and so I WANT to do that, not just for him, but because it feels good, too!
Anyway, I went off on a tangent again, but I just wanted to note that similarity. He DID ask me to change, but I didn't really hear it the way I needed to. Then, the A explosion...
Thanks, Lin. You've now brought me to tears, and I REALLY wish I could hug you! You have been my angel today. Thank you so very much.
For the business, we have a real estate investment business, and I need to refinance some houses. I have to work on the data this weekend for the loan officer. My thought on our business if we don't work out as a couple is that we should just sell all of our real estate and split the profits and each have our own little nest egg to start over on our own with. In time, maybe we could be partners again. But I just don't think I could stomach it immediately, if ever.
So I'm faced with this question: Do I just go ahead and refinance those houses and keep going as if we are going to be okay? Or do I talk to him about this and see if he thinks it would be best to sell them. I don't want to make any premature decisions on us and our M and our business, so it's probably best just to not say anything about it and go ahead and refinance, but I just don't know. Unfortunately, I have to take care of it this weekend (God help me), so I don't have the choice of waiting a bit to see how this all levels off. What do you think?
I saw H a little while ago. He was at the office when I got back there. He was with his friend, so there was no opportunity for any discussions at all, which was good. I could tell there was tension in the air (but maybe I'm just over sensitive right now), but he was nice and cordial to me at least, so that was nice.
One of the things I told him yesterday is that I would like it if he could be nicer to me, that sometimes he was mean and short with me and that it just made me not want to be around him. He said he would work on being nicer to me with our business stuff. I explained that it wasn't just with the business stuff but with our personal lives, too. He said he would work on it. After that, I did notice that our interactions both last night and today were a little better in that he seemed to be making a conscious effort to be a bit nicer to me, which is nice.
I know that most A's don't last, and that gives me hope. My fear now, though, is that he's now said that he doesn't want to be wiht me. So even if the A does end, will he still feel that way? Is the A clouding his feelings for me so that when it ends they will still be there? Or if it does end, will he still not want to be with me? I guess all I can do for now is focus on being a better person so that he will want to be with me again. You hit the nail on the head when you said that you knew if you didn't change you were going to lose the one person you had committed to spending your life with. Thanks for saying that. It's exactly how I feel. Not changing is simply not an option. I don't want to lose this man.
Thanks so much for the advice on the communication. As you can tell, I can certainly ramble... I will make conscious efforts to implement what you have suggested with ALL of those around me, and hopefully ultimately it will help with H as well.
Do you have any suggestions of how I can draw HIM out of his shell more? Do you think that just by me making some changes that will help?
About our trip to see his parents, you suggested that I should go no matter what. Do you think that if he says he doesn't want to go that I should still go? What if he says he doesn't want me to go either?
Lin, now that your H is back home, has he given you any insight into what he was feeling/thinking/going through during the time he was away that you think might be helpful for me to know? Since H has a hard time communicating, I'm a bit in the dark as to what is going on in that head of his...
Regarding friends and family knowing about this, I know you're right about them not knowing. It's hard, but it's what needs to be done. Do any of your friends and family know NOW what happened to you guys? How did they NOT know when he moved away?
Thanks so much for your encouragement, Lin. You have brightened my spirit and given me hope. Congratulations again on all you have accomplished. You're right, it's NEVER TOO LATE! I can do this. And when I look back on it all, wow, what an accomplishment I will have made, and how wonderful it will be to know that our M was saved because I took this initiative.
Okay....I made the mistake of telling everyone about H...I lived to regret that for a long time....thank goodness no one has mentioned to him that I said what I said...he worked to get accepted back into our congregation and the forgiveness is great with our friends there....I did tell him there was on sister in our congregation who went through something similar and that she was my inspiration....he was upset that I had talked to her...but he did get over that because she is such a wonderful loving person that she showed him that she held no conditions against him...
If you husband asks you NOT to go with him, then don't....and don't ask...don't question him...just accept that is what he wants and let it be...
I had the ummm, priveledge of hearing my H and OW on the phone...it was a 3-way call but only H knew I was there...he was telling her that he was going to work on our marriage and I wanted to hear him tell her....I heard how loving and accepting she was....how when he told her she "supported" him...told him she would be ok...for him to do what he needed...and to know she loved him.....I felt like I was breaking up a wonderful couple...boy was that a hard one to swallow...
Even though they were talking marriage...she split from her H and filed for divorce....their A ended...but he didn't come back to me for probably over a year after that!...so in answer to question about that....it would be best to realize that even if the affair ends...it doesn't mean you automatically win...
H told me he would go out and observe other couples...he felt that our relationship was majorly disfunctional....suprise to me because I thought we had a great marriage and so did our friends...you have to understand that my H was severly abused as a young boy and witnessed the abuse of his sister as well...so he was "damaged goods" as he says...
Basically anytime your H is away from is time he might use to examine himself...think about what he wants....how to get it...
As for the business...just do it as if nothing has changed....funny that you are in real estate investment...my H is in real estate...pretty much the end of our marriage was when he went into real estate...he was good at managing others just not himself....
For right now....and probably for a long time....DON'T try and draw H out....that means questioning him and he is tired of it...our explosion included an affair too...I had no idea that H was that sad....he did say he tried to tell me but that I didn't listen...
I will go back in time a bit...6 years before the A he had an online EA that I discovered...he begged and pleaded for me to forgive him....in all of that I found out part of that was because he wanted to feel passion and excitement...something he said wasn't happening with us...our sex life was very routine...and sad to say I often watched TV at the same we had sex...I DIDN'T APPRECIATE WHAT I HAD...well sometime after that I did spice things up...we got more affectionate then we had been...it was like we were teenagers again....and to think just 6 years later he walked out...I thought things were great...sure we were having problems with finances and emotionally that was stressful for me...but I had no idea that he was online again...except this time he was done with me....didn't love me...and wanted out before he died!
As for your guys' sex life...you mentioned it so I will discuss it...if you don't want to I understand...but you mention him wanting you to orgasm....but you don't say if you were able to or not....I know this was important to my H...but then I don't have a problem with that....and he is really good at making love so in that respect we don't have a problem anymore...well except now he is very routine, lol...but I can live with that for now....
Basically I made a lot of mistakes....and I found hope and support here that I feel helped me to save my marriage and I am prepared to give back now that I feel I am in a place of strength again...
So for as long as you need...I will be here...take care and I know if you are anything like me...you CAN DO THIS!!!
I tried to wake him to get him to go to bed, but he wouldn't budge. So I just let him sleep there, and I went to sleep in the guest bedroom so that if he did come to bed he wouldn't have to sleep with me. I wasn't sure if he had intentionally fallen asleep on the couch. He did come to bed later that night.
I don't know what to do, so I just keep talking. I ask him questions that he'll usually answer, but it's usually just a yes or no answer rather than him expanding on his feelings. 
