In my experience even a gentle nudge of the hand can be perceived by a man who is feeling vulnerable as a criticism. It's pretty aggravating for a woman, especially if you're really "getting into it" to make a suggestion either with a word or two or with a physical shift and have him react with huffing and pouting.
Ugh Lil. I agree. My H has never taken offense to my suggestions but I have been with others who think they know it all, or worse have you on a time frame. One guy was performing oral on me, no more than 5 minutes tops, and just I was really starting to get into it, he lifts his head up and half laughing/half annoyed, says something like "You are going to give me a complex if you don't cum soon." Being the HD woman I can be, I basically just told him to shut up and finish the job which he did, but I was annoyed afterwards. I knew that guy was going to be a taker, not a giver, and clearly thought he was too cool for school to get away with that BS. Dropped him soon after, not just for that but bigger issues like being a compulsive liar. See all the fun stuff you have to look forward to Mojo!
Yeah, that "is he getting tired" "will he give up before I get there"-- YUCK!
One thing to keep in mind, Mojo, is that when you and your H did get it on, you were VERY compatible. In my moderately extensive experience (between the ages of 25 and 55) that is difficult to find. I only had one lover that I felt was truly and automatically on my wavelength. And he wasn't someone I wanted to or ever could live with.
Martelo I understand you point, but I think in this case the guy started it.
he lifts his head up and half laughing/half annoyed, says something like "You are going to give me a complex if you don't cum soon.
If I were to let a woman give me a BJ and she said that, I would reply with 'well your going to have a complex then and pull her up.'
Now if we were kissing and talking and teasing and I told her to 'shut up and put your mouth to good use allready' while pushing her down, that could be offensive. Though if done in good spirit she may very well appreciate it too.
I think when you are giving oral, you are giving, and the expectaion of some sort of time constraint or control over their own response takes away the point of the gift.
Imagine the following statement coming from a man and tell me how it would make you feel.
I'm not a good example there Martelo. I'm assuming your point is I would be offended. Wrong. And BF is right, he started it. If I was giving him oral and basically told him to hurry up, I would hope you would tell me to shut up too. But I like a little domination with my sex, so....
He is depressed because of his marriage, not the other way around
I think this is so true, for many of us. This is one thing my wife just does NOT get. She says that she doesn't like my moodiness and grouchiness, and yet I have told her many many times that it is the lack of affection and LM in our marriage that makes me this way -- NOT the other way around.
Choc, Ya know, I bet it is the other way around to her . You being moody and grumpy makes her desire you less, which in turn makes you moodier and grumpier, so she desires even less and so the viscious cycle goes. The moodiness and grumpiness is fused behavior, you are depending on other-validation to pull you out of it. If you can pull yourself out of that mind set and find a way to self-soothe, maybe you can break the cycle, KWIM?
Not easy, I know. I've also become a grumpy old man before my time, and that I am trying very hard to work my way out of regardless of what MrsGGB does or doesn't do. So yeah, I understand what you are saying, but I've also learned through this board that it is MY problem.
I think you're absolutely right, and I have tried to "break the cycle" on many occasions. After awhile with no response (again, fused behavior, I realize) I eventually give up.
He is depressed because of his marriage, not the other way around
I will not say that this isn't true for you, Cobra and others but I do not think there is one answer that applies to everyone. I would just encourage you to be open-minded about other possible issues when you look at others' stories. My xH now states that his unhappiness/depression came first and was about his own personal issues but it morphed very quickly into being all about me and the marriage. He did not know or believe that at the time. It's only something he realized later after going through counseling on his own.
Granted our issues were not about sex but there were similar comments - I did not "make" him happy, my unhappiness with work caused him to be unhappy, etc. He now tells me that it was all BS. The fact that he began an affair somewhere in there only made the issues worse. We began marriage counseling after we began a separation after 6+ months of difficult times (and after his affair started). He initiated the counseling. After I found out about the affair (4 months later), I asked why in the world he initiated the counseling while he was in an affair. He said that he was so absolutely sure that i was a horrible person and it was all my fault that he believed counseling would prove it. The fact that counseling didn't "show" that it was my fault was a very complicated problem for him.
Anyway, I just wanted to bring this up because I've seen similar things with a few other couples where one was so sure the other person was making them miserable that they left their spouse. Yet so far I have yet to see one of those people move on to happiness after leaving their spouse. So if the theory was true for them, the ending of the marriage should have "made" them happy.
I just mention this because it is difficult when people talk in absolutes. I wouldn't dare to assume that you, Cobra, etc. are incorrect in your evaluation of your marriage problems.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Have you tried using a carrot or a stick, or both? Sometimes just being the nice guy and turning around your previous behaviors is not enough to get the marriage unstuck. If she does not believe that things will be different this time, because for years it has not been, she might not give your real changes a chance. She might also have detached herself so much that she cannot bring herself to start feeling again even if she wants to. She might need some sort out outside “push” to bring her back to the world of the living.
