I'll bet most people here understand the connection between smell and sex, the connection between all our senses and sex.
This is ironic. I just was reading a magazine on the storeshelf that has a story about the so called "Desire" nerve. Scientists think that they have discoverd a nerve, called the nerve 0, that is directly controls desire. For most animals, it is part of the sense of smell. This nerve "smells" pheremones. It went for decades without discovery, mainly because it is so small and delicate that when brains were disected, it often was throw out with the brain membrane tissue. This nerve cause "DESIRE" from the oders around us. Literally, this nerve can turn people on or off based upon the way we "smell" each other.
Hi, my name is mrs.cac4 and I'm a control freak. I need to be in control of everything in my life, all the time. I need to control my H. I need to control my S3. I need to control the money. I need to control what we have for dinner. I need to control where the dishes go in the dishwasher. Everything must be done according to my specifications.
Problem is, no one quite measures up to my specifications, not even me, especially not me.
I entered my R wanting to control everything. I felt in control because I had a FT job and H was still a student with a PT job. I was older than him. I handled the money. I chose where we lived. I criticized him. I yelled at him. I was never satisfied. I behaved like a controlling parent instead of a partner. And sadly, he allowed me to treat him that way. I am so sorry I treated him badly.
He defended himself in the only way he knew how -- through passive-aggressive behavior. This was how he learned to survive as a kid. But the more passive-aggressive his behavior, the more I pushed, yelled, controlled and criticized.
I didn't behave like this all the time (I don't think). Or maybe I did, but don't realize it. I hated living with my parents' constant fighting and vowed that my R/M wouldn't be this way. I tried to pick my battles, but I really picked the wrong ones, and more specifically, the truly unimportant ones.
Typically I would go about my business controlling everything, but "letting things go" to keep the peace, or so I thought. I'm talking about something left on the counter, a sock on the floor, something not put away. The "small stuff." After a time of letting things go, I'd reach my limit and blow my top. H would have no idea why I was so upset because typically the trigger would be something very insignificant and unrelated.
I suspect that on an unconscious level, being LD may have been a way to control my SL too. I want to stress that this was in no way a conscious decision. For me to lose control of anything was terribly frightening. I was running on raw emotion and fear. I was completely clueless about how much I was hurting my H, and for that I am so sorry.
I also think my LDness had a passive-aggressive component as well. [I just googled passive-aggressive behavior, and it is frightening to see how many of the characteristics fit me.] I'm sure there were plenty of other things I did that were passive-aggressive in nature.
What I have learned from this bit of soul-searching is that I wasn't able to ask for what I wanted, if I even really knew what that was. I was afraid to ask. I was afraid. If I let myself show/feel any vulnerability, I was weak and not in control. It also meant I could get hurt, and I sure knew what that felt like. I felt on some level that I didn't really deserve to get what I needed. What I truly needed was love, only I didn't know it. I didn't think I was lovable. And that is the core fear of most every human being.
Cobra, thanks for the reply... I'm really wanting to understand you here.
So you're saying that your W's lack of understanding about the way men/boys good-naturedly tease/challenge each other leads to her 1) having contempt for the whole male gender because they are so dumb and have to express their tender emotions in this lame way; and 2) causes her to put up walls just in case they might try some of this stuff with her?
Re your example about the hypothetical partner, it seems to me that *I* might very well put up walls were I with such a partner, because he was expressing disgust about his interactions with females in his past. That's a far cry from a guy who conducted his teasing mostly with other guys, whether brothers, Little League teammates, fishing buddies, etc.
I don't see much similarity between the hypothetical partner's expression of contempt for the past females who were unlucky enough to be the receptacle of his lust and the guy who indulges in regular guy teasing/challenging/mild name-calling/shoulder punching, etc.
Are you saying that your wife would respond to these two different categories of behavior by putting up shields of the same thickness? (IOW that both extremes are just different-- but not really different-- examples of male dumbness and emotional ineptitude?)
Cemar, that's really interesting. You've helped me understand my feelings about smell a bit more.
I've suspected for quite a while that my desire for H has been greatly inhibited by the smell of smoke on him. I don't know his scent because it's covered up by smoke. He's tried to quit smoking a couple of times and during those (more recent) times, I honestly reveled in being able to smell him, being able to truly breathe in his scent. I know non-smokers get this, but only a fellow HSP would get how BIG a deal smell is to us. It's HUGE.
Sometimes during the day, when he's at work, I'll start to think about him and feel desire for him. Often it's triggered by something I see, maybe a couple on TV. I start thinking about ML that night and look forward to his arrival from work. When he arrives, I smell the smoke and my desire starts to dissipate. Then I think maybe I don't really want to ML after all. Well, that's the way I used to think.
And the thing is, the love was right there for the taking. H offered love to me every day. But I couldn't truly accept it. I didn't know how to love and I didn't know how to be loved.
This is where S3 came in. He offered me love every day too, and I was able to accept it. I really tried to treat him the way I wanted to be treated. I freely accepted his love and I freely gave him love. And it brought me a lot of joy.
But then I began to think, why can I so freely exchange love with my child and have difficulty doing so with my H? How are they different? Then I realized that they aren't any different. I realized that my H deserved to be treated with same kindness, love and respect that I showed to my child. I also realized that I deserved to be treated the same way.
Hi mrs.cac4. I want to copy this post and give it to my W. She could have written it. "Could have", except that she hasn't gotten to the point yet that you have: accepting responsibility for your actions. That was/is a big (huge, enormous...) step for you, wasn't it?
Have you ever taken the Enneagram test? Hey, Lil! Do you think she is a Type 1, like Ms.Hdog? And what about cac4...is he a Type 6 like me?
Jeeze...this is like watching my story unfold. Or, should I say, my "fantasy" unfold, because it is only in my innermost, most private thoughts and wishes, where I allow myself the tiniest ember of hope that Ms.Hdog will "get it" as mrs.cac4 seems to be. I feel like putting this thread on my "blocked threads" list because all it does is feed that futile hope. Or, in a bit more Zen-like way of putting it, this thread is like some sort of parallel attachment to the attachment I have for my marriage's bright future. And this attachment, like that attachment, causes me to suffer.
Quote:
Typically I would go about my business controlling everything, but "letting things go" to keep the peace, or so I thought. I'm talking about something left on the counter, a sock on the floor, something not put away. The "small stuff." After a time of letting things go, I'd reach my limit and blow my top. H would have no idea why I was so upset because typically the trigger would be something very insignificant and unrelated.
OMG...you mean Ms.Hdog might not be calling me at work to complain about the way the towel was hung on the towel rack...that it was just the most recent "last straw"? This helps me understand her better. Maybe, instead of saying, "well, then hang it up the way you want it, I'm not stopping you, and, btw, quit calling me at work about crap like this" or, worse yet, "I'm sorry. It won't happen again," I should say, "hey honey, what's really wrong? What's going on with you?"?
Hairdog, who now needs to go back and look closer at some of cac4's posts.
Sometimes during the day, when he's at work, I'll start to think about him and feel desire for him. Often it's triggered by something I see, maybe a couple on TV. I start thinking about ML that night and look forward to his arrival from work. When he arrives, I smell the smoke and my desire starts to dissipate.
Geeze, cac4, if your own health, your wife's health, and your son's health aren't enough reason to quit smoking, surely your c*ck's health provides the impetus? Or, just keep smoking and it will provide the impotence.
Hairdog, who used to be a smoker, then wasn't, then was a secret smoker, then wasn't, then was, and now, has been smoke free for a long time, and intends to keep it that way.
Hairdog, I think mrs cac is a 4, just because I like her so darned much!
A true 1 (IMHO) could not observe herself as a control freak. The 1 (okay, the fairly dysfunctional 1) believes that s/he is right. S/he can't help it. For example, my late h's first wife did not want the divorce-- but more than that, she believed the D was WRONG. So she never forgave him; she couldn't, because she believed he was morally wrong. At their son's wedding she never made eye contact with him for the whole weekend they were there. She didn't come to his funeral. She could not compromise her moral principles. It's kind of like people who hold extreme views-- like being against abortion, for example-- NOT trying to ruffle anyone's feathers, just looking for an example. Maybe a better, less volatile example is my opinion on bullfighting. I think it's wrong. I will not compromise my view on that. I do not see myself as a control freak. I don't believe people have the moral right to indulge in bullfighting. End of discussion.
So if mrs cac were a true 1, she would not be able to see that it's HER desire to see the towel hung a certain way that is the problem. To her (like to mrs hd) it would simply be clear that there is a Right and a Wrong way to hang a towel and you've done it wrong. Period.
The 1 is the healthy direction for 4... so it seems to me that for her to observe that she is controlling represents growth and insight; therefore she is a 4.
Mrs cac, Byron Katie has a thing in one of her books about her children's socks and how she spent years trying to get them to pick them up until she realized... that she was the only one who cared whether they were picked up, so SHE started doing it, and EVERYONE was a lot happier. The kids because she stopped nagging them and her because the socks were picked up. Now her kids are adults and they pick up their socks.
cac, my bf suffers from ED (cannot maintain an E long enough to have intercourse) and I attribute it in part to a lifetime of smoking-- he's 56. I also attribute his quad bypass surgery to smoking. Quit! When you're a randy 60-year-old and you and mrs cac are burning up the sheets, you'll be SO glad you took this advice!
So you're saying that your W's lack of understanding about the way men/boys good-naturedly tease/challenge each other leads to her 1) having contempt for the whole male gender because they are so dumb and have to express their tender emotions in this lame way;
Yes, but this contempt is based on her perception, one that I believe is shaped a lot from feminist teaching that men should get in touch with their femininity in order to be true to themselves. Male teasing seems to my wife to be based on denial of emotions, and is therefore a sign of underlying insecurity and dishonesty toward self.
2) causes her to put up walls just in case they might try some of this stuff with her?
My impression is that she takes it one step further, from “might try” to “will try.” “Might try” means she must leave the door open enough to judge the male actions against her expectations, creating potential for disappointment. “Will try” means she assumes the worst, does not need to open herself to disappointment since it is assume to follow, and can therefore close the door entirely.
[Blackfoot, I suspect this is a lot of what you have been trying to rationalize lately. After I broke up with my college girlfriend (which ripped my heart out like you have just endured), I also went through a similar justification of my attitudes toward women.
I recommend you re-think this because it is only a defense. You cannot get around your need for love. You might get hurt again, but the fact that you have learned so much has made this a small probability, IMO. The more you build your rationalization, the more you increase your chances of getting hurt again. You cannot escape the fact that true happiness requires opening yourself up strictly on the basis of faith. FWIW.]
Re your example about the hypothetical partner, it seems to me that *I* might very well put up walls were I with such a partner, because he was expressing disgust about his interactions with females in his past.
How could you not take it this way?
That's a far cry from a guy who conducted his teasing mostly with other guys, whether brothers, Little League teammates, fishing buddies, etc.
Not necessarily. That disgusting guy also can engage in the same harmless teasing with other males. The other males will hear his disgusting comments too, but admire him for his strength and bravery in speaking openly about topics all men may have, but do not feel safe in expressing. But if that disgusting guys tries to pull the same type of comments on the other men, he will immediately be called out on it.
Why do you think feminists have such a sisterly bond? They look for an activist with the guts to stand up for the “cause,” against the males chauvinists. She becomes the leader, but many of the “followers” do not want to fill her shoes and take her heat. They just want to feel secure under her protection. Until it goes too far. Men can be the same.
I don't see much similarity between the hypothetical partner's expression of contempt for the past females who were unlucky enough to be the receptacle of his lust and the guy who indulges in regular guy teasing/challenging/mild name-calling/shoulder punching, etc.
Not to you, since you differentiate contemptuous remarks from the empathic remarks. To me, the disgusting guy is just a little more extreme mix of what is inside most men. So I see him as one and the same, just a little out in left field.
Are you saying that your wife would respond to these two different categories of behavior by putting up shields of the same thickness? (IOW that both extremes are just different-- but not really different-- examples of male dumbness and emotional ineptitude?)
No, I am saying that she HAS responded like that. Now if you were to ask her, she would deny ever doing that. And she has become much more balance over the past few years as we had grown. But she still has a lot of this in her. I try not to blame her for it. I know it is a consequence of her FOO, but I don’t have to put up with it either.
