-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Fearless, I really appreciate your insight into my situation. I feel like you really have a handle on how I feel.
Is it true that you have ALWAYS had one foot out the door?
Not always, but I started to wish I wasn't with him for the first time around 1995 when we first moved to Virginia. The frequency of those thoughts increased from that point on. However, I never, ever truly wanted to get away from H...I just wished he would change his behavior, at the time his alcohol issue all but took over my brain. I mean, I was 20 when we moved out here....dealing with a full blown alcoholic. Who the heck wouldn't wish things were different?! But I loved him, so I stayed. I frequently wonder what other 20 year old had a love that was strong and mature enough to stay with someone who drank like that but yet never socialized...I was very isolated. So, I was committed enough to stay, but I lived mostly in the future, when things would be 'different'.
The main reason I feel like this knowledge is important to you is that it could prevent you from over apologizing which I feel is something you have done recently.
My sister thinks so too. She heard nothing but blame in the emails from H that I posted here. She would love for H and I to work things out, but she also doesn't see where H has really said or done anything that indicates he's willing to do what it takes to fix our M.
To me, it seems that if you were not really committed to your H and marriage, you would have been gone a long time ago.
This is exactly how I feel. I've sort of felt that it was obvious that I was committed and want this M to work. I haven't liked being kicked out of my bed for nearly three years, but I've DONE it. Doesn't that say SOMEthing?!
If you can be true to yourself over the next few months while allowing yourself to listen and validate your H's feelings, I think there is a true chance for things to work out well for both of you.
I'm going to try really hard to do this. I got off to a really good start which seems to have put him at ease communicating with me. He asked me today what he's supposed to do about the papers-he said the papers indicated he's supposed to respond by March 8 and his lawyer is 'bugging him' about what to do. I told him we'd discuss it this weekend. So, there will likely be more serious conversations coming.
A question: the whole truck financing thing - do you all have separate finances so that it would be "your" financial loss instead of both of yours?
Yes, the loss will be mine because our finances are completely separate. We do have online banking and we have access to one another's accounts to transfer money, etc, but the accounts are separate. Keeping our accounts separate is just sort of how we evolved. It has worked out well, we've always seemed to split things up evenly and arguments about money are very rare. It works for us although I can see why it wouldn't for some people.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Things are going ok. Not great, not even good exactly, but ok.
I still have a lot of apprehension about H's view of our life together and what it means to him.....he still seems to find it acceptable to tell me what I 'can' and 'can't' do which is very troublesome to me and I need to address it. Here's yesterday's example-I found a church that I MIGHT like to visit. It's called a Unitarian church and it sounds like a place I might like. I sent him a link to the website and he happened to call shortly after so I told him I sent the link. He was ADAMANTLY against going. I said, well I'd like you to go with me, but I can't make you. I might like to go myself then though, I'll have to see. He said 'I'm just sitting here thinking, it's more time away from the family, but I'm starting to change my thoughts on that too so...'. I said, 'well, like I said, I can't make you come with me, but if I get involved and it's something I enjoy, there's no reason the kids can't come with me'. He said 'yes there is. There's a huge reason-I am completely against it'. He argued against church, organized religion and I tried to explain that I share most of his views, but this church sounded different and that was why I sent him the link. He kept asking questions about why, what's the point, etc. I happened to still have the website open so I answered each of his rhetorical questions with an answer from the website, which he mostly argued with as well. At one point he asked me if this is something my 'ideal spouse' would do and I didn't know if he was being sarcastic, but it didn't sound like it so I said 'no, not necessarily. But my ideal spouse would probably say something along the lines of, if it's important to you to give it a try then go ahead and if you find it to be something you enjoy, feel free to take the kids, you are their mother'. He just said "Well..." and that was all. At some point, he said that church/religion is something we're supposed to co-parent on and I said 'I know, that's why I asked you to come with me'. (Sidenote-convenient how he mentions coparenting when it suits him....I'd like to coparent on the bedtime issue and in some other areas as well and I've been trying for years to no avail). I can't remember what prompted me to say this, but I said 'I can't imagine you asking me to attend or do something with you or for you and me saying straight up no, I just don't understand that'. He jumped all over that statement saying that I was attacking him by saying 'I would never do this or that to you...'. I told him I didn't mean to attack him, but that for me, the statement is true. I wouldn't say no. He said so if I asked you to...I can't even remember the example he used...do xyz, then you would do it?' I said 'If you wanted me to, yes, I'd at least try it'. He said, 'well that's the thing, I would never ask that of you.' I said 'H, we've been together for 15 years and you've never asked anything of me? Is that the kind of R we want, one in which we never ask anything of one another?' He said 'I'm just not like that, I don't ask anything of you'. He said "I don't know, maybe it's just my mood right now, maybe I'll feel differently later, but..." I said "Ok, maybe we can try to talk about it again later". And that was it.
So there you have it. The old dynamics are just chomping at the bit to return. I found two things promising. One was that he asked what my ideal spouse would do, I was surprised he cared enough to ask. The second positive thing was that he left the door open to change his mind. I did not act pissy last night which I think surprised him. He expected me to mad, even asked me if I was mad in the form of 'Uh-oh, the look on your face is not good, what'd I do?' The look on my face was fine, he was just anticipating the worst. I just said 'Is there an odd look on my face...I don't know, I feel fine'. And we went about our night.
But this has GOT to be addressed. We need to have another discussion this weekend and I could sure use some assistance with putting my thoughts together. I get so overwhelmed by his reactions to things that I don't even know where to start!
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Hi Heather Well, my first instinct after reading that last post is that your timing is really sucky. Why on earth would you bring up such a "hot topic" like starting at a new church when you know darn well your H views on religion. Don't you have enough on your plate? That just doesn't make sense to me. The two of you are still trying to work out this new relationship and you seem to be testing him quite a bit in ways that I think are just too much right now. Stick with the issues at hand and make your life a little less stressful. If you really want to go to that church then go, but I agree with your H, I don't think you should bring the children unless you both decide it would be in their best interest. LFL
I am just headed out the door for the day, but I will get back to you in the early evening.
Hang in there.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
My timing probably was pretty bad, thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps I'll let it lie.
It may seem like I'm testing him, but I've been thinking about spirituality/religion for quite a while, particularly through the difficult times H and I have been having. It seems like I only make time for my spiritual side is when I've hit bottom and I've even wondered if a separation between H and I was a higher power's plan.....in order to aid me in finding my way with that aspect of my life. What a shame that would be, so I've sort of had those thoughts in the forefront of my mind lately.
But the timing does suck doesn't it?
For the record, I didn't suggest bringing the kids with me until he pointed out that it would be 'time away from the family'. My only point was that it doesn't have to be time away from the family.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
eeek the worst vice is advise. worse even the Mojo teasing the animals with her visualizations.
Hi heather.
I think you are doing very very good.
How you are handling situations and your H's mood swings. Very good. Nice job.
You are noticing the small changes. Dont just brush past them. Dont forget to appreciate them. It may seem like crawling baby steps, but they are huge. Its not to be immediately discarded and focus on the next 'must'. If you make it thru this, you will have earned the 'Patience of Job' award. Why does the convo have to happen this weekend? Why cant it sit for a week? When he is argumentative you dont have to take it as a no, just listen. Repeat to him, 'this is something I would like to try out with you, together'.
'H, we've been together for 15 years and you've never asked anything of me? Is that the kind of R we want, one in which we never ask anything of one another?' He said 'I'm just not like that, I don't ask anything of you'.
you need to think about this. there are many facets to this. here are two. one, you Want him to ask things of you. Tell him that. two, He does ask things of you when he asks you to stay without compromising about your needs. It may be silent, but its still expectation. Dont let P/A get you. Bring it out in the open.
Everytime you are intimate, whether its physical or emotional, its going to be followed by a withdrawal. You both do it, but you become panicked and barely control yourself when he does likewise. Learn this fact. accept it. deal with it. You guys have close to zero intimacy so the withdrawal is going to be very pronounced, and noticable. This is a new R, as long as you keep acting in this new differant manner. If you revert, so will he. He is entering conflict with you. Know you guys just have to both learn to handle it, and be respectful.
But this has GOT to be addressed. We need to have another discussion this weekend and I could sure use some assistance with putting my thoughts together. I get so overwhelmed by his reactions to things that I don't even know where to start!
Your funny. You can always make me laugh. Keep up the good work.
Oh heather....got to tell you this: My W decided that we needed to give our DD5 some sort of religious education because she had seen some of her relatives who grew up without any such education, grow into holy rollers. DD5 already goes to an Episcopal day school, and, with my wife a Buddhist, and me a Jew, what do you do? She did the legwork and we ended up going to a UU church (Unitarian/Universalist). I was skeptical. Although I hadn't been a practicing Jew for many years, I was pretty protective of my heritage.
I was "hooked" by the end of the Reverend's first sermon. This is like no other church I'd ever heard of, attended, etc.
All I can say is this 45 year old Jew boy proudly calls himself a member of this "church". (And yes, when I talk about it, I do the "air quotes" when I say "church").
Now may not be the time, but I urge you to go and give it a try.
