I have said this to you before. You have no understanding of mlc so do not comment. I would like you to talk to someone who has been in mlc and make such suggestions. What you say can poison someone who really needs help against getting in mlc.
The mlc board is one of the most supportive and caring.
BTW it figures you would like Dr. Laura's book. She does not believe in mlc either.
Was this the case when you started your R? If so why did you do your chore, in the beginning? Since you consider it a chore, do you push off your other chores in the same way? Do you ignore the dishes, brushing your teeth, feeding your kid(s)?
He said that he thinks I'm not interested. He said he tried the flowers thing and it still didnt' seem to make a diffence in bed.
Since you admit that you were aware of what he wanted, and actively took steps to avoid any situation that could allow for sex, he is not wrong. Does flowers make a differance in your wanting to have sex? Did you tell him that it does/doesnt? Did you ask him why would he try to buy sex with....candy, flowers, jewelry, whatever?
Frankly that concept completely baffles me. If I wanted to purchase something from a woman, I would pay her to give me some space, after we had a good time together.
I need some kisses on the neck first.
as opposed to what?
Thats it physically speaking? Just kisses on the neck. Boy your easy. Do you know what turns you on? Have you told him explicitly even if its mental, not physical. If he were a woman, and you were a lesbian, I could understand him allready knowing what you wanted. Of course, most LongTerm lesbian relationships are sexless too so maybe not.
I need some open, honest communication. Why? What does open honest communication change about you that changes sex from being a chore to something you want to do?
I understand wanting open honest communication. I understand wanting a nice dinner. I understand wanting a comfortable place to live. I want sex. None of them are contingent upon the other, though.
'I want to have sex.' Does that count as open honest communication?
I need to feel loved.
Thats really vague. what does that mean? Did you feel loved when your H started his A? Is that why you wanted to have sex then, because you felt loved?
If no, to any of those, then -to me --that does not constitute open honest communication. I find it contradictory.
Do you crave sex now, or are you just ammenable and receptive.
I told him that sometimes I feel used
Interesting. I take it that feeling used, is a bad thing? Describe a scenario that would leave you feeling-- not used.
Is sex still unenjoyable for you? If so why do you want your H back? If its to pay the bills, catch the spiders, take out the trash, be there for the kids, I understand that. If thats not why you want him back, and you do enjoy sex now, has anything external changed or are the changes internal? Do you know what they are?
Welcome. Im glad to hear about your progress. Affairs are very painful. You should be proud of yourself for the hardwork you have done on yourself.
Cobra, I was surprised to read your opinion of the type of support on the MLC board. It is not like that at all. Most of the advice is not geared towards blame or confrontation. Most of the advice is geared toward being supportive of the MLCer in his/her depression, while also having healthy boundaries in place. IMO, the primary focus is working on yourself and finding happiness in your own skin while the MLCer works thorugh his/her own issues and/or continues his/her destructive behavior.
Blackfoot, YOu pose a lot of direct, yet good questions.
H was my first, at the age of 19. I was brought up Catholic, so I had a lot of guilt around having sex before M. I also perceived sex as wrong. I know now, that it is not wrong, but rather a part of a healthy R. So, I think I carried a lot of that with me for years. I didn't want to do anything different becuase again, I felt it was wrong. Crazy, right?
As for flowers and such, it's more about feeling a general appreciation from H. If I feel in general that i'm not appreciated, then i feel used when we have sex. And flowers or cards are one way that shows me he cares. But, does getting flowers make me want to have sex? No. It just helps me with not wanting to have sex.
Since h and I spoke the other day, I have given thought to what I want/need. And for the most part, it's a little bit of loving affection prior to the sex. I jsut can't stand the pounce. Lying in bed and all of the sudden, he's all over me and wants sex then and there. It takes more than that to arouse a woman. So, I have given that some good thought and plan to tell H what I would like/need.
I also want to clarify what I meant about our sex life improving after the A. It was after H came back from having moved out and had the A that he told me sex was an issue (but I didn't realize until this week just how BIG of an issue it was). So, I made a conscious effort to make improvements. DId I feel loved during this period? Yes, is many cases. H made certain efforts to buy flowers and cards, etc... Plus, I just make the conscious effort to have sex more often and with a little more excitement. But with H's erratic behavior, resentement built and I had more anger and wanted him to just go away when he approached me. Sorry, just being honest.
Sex used to be enjoyable to me only sometimes. But most of the time, I just wanted to get it over with. But part of that was me not knowing what makes me tick and also that feeling of it being "wrong" becuase I wasn't married. I am just now starting to explore more of that within myself. I do want an fulfilling sex life. I do enjoy it much more often than before.
Yes, I need to tell him more about what I want. He asked me to do so. But I also had this feeling like he just wanted it too much and that he was some sort of sex crazed lunatic. It is helpful for me to understand that this is just a typical man, not a sex crazed lunatic.
Blackfoot, I appreciate you asking those probing questions. It really made me stop and think.
Married 9 years Kids 5 and 6 Bomb 2006 H back and forth for a year M now back on track
But I also had this feeling like he just wanted it too much and that he was some sort of sex crazed lunatic. It is helpful for me to understand that this is just a typical man, not a sex crazed lunatic.
This is extremely demeaning, and yes, I hear this type of crap language from my wife occasionally. Essentially, you are saying, "before I talked to you people, I saw my husband's behavior as that of a sex crazed lunatic. Now, I understand that my husband's behavior is that of a typical man." The behavior is the same as it was before you asked us, although now you know that it is behavior shared by a majority of men, not just behavior manifested by a sex crazed lunatic.
Well thanks, peaceful. It's good to know that you now see this behavior that, before, you attributed only to sex crazed lunatics, is shared by all "typical" men.
This kind of language evidences an attitude about sex that is likely as aberrant as you thought your H's behavior was.
I was surprised to read your opinion of the type of support on the MLC board. It is not like that at all. Most of the advice is not geared towards blame or confrontation. Most of the advice is geared toward being supportive of the MLCer in his/her depression, while also having healthy boundaries in place. IMO, the primary focus is working on yourself and finding happiness in your own skin while the MLCer works thorugh his/her own issues and/or continues his/her destructive behavior.
Working on yourself is the key and I know there is some of that over there. But I see very little discussion of FOO issues or any analysis of why you are like you and as well as your spouse. Without that knowledge, all you can do is focus on being more compassionate and patient. But that still does not validate the needs of the MLCer, does it? It does not make you radically honest, open and vulnerable. So that standoff goes on and on.
You can learn a lot on this board. I believe the viewpoints here are unique and it is rare to find such a collection of posters. I have believe for a long time that this SSM board could be a Godsend to the MLC board, if they (the MLC board) would only open themselves up to it.
Mermaid,
Yes, I remember you too…. I completely agree with you that the MLC board is the most supportive and caring. It is one big cyber hug-fest. Loads of compassion for the LBS and none for the MLCer.
You know as well as I that MLC is not any sort of disease. It is a reaction, a way of responding, to a buildup of conditions, abuse and denial over the years, and generally manifests at middle age. There is no disease involved. Dr. Laura has it right concerning men.
I challenge you to post on this board. Give us a synopsis of your situation and see what kind of feedback you get. You might be very surprised at the work you still need to do and the understanding of your H that you do not have.
It is helpful for me to understand that this is just a typical man, not a sex crazed lunatic.
HD, dont take it personal man. typical man =sex crazed lunatic. Its ok. Be proud of it. Yes we are. Makes me want to muss up my hair and run around the room banging on a pan saying 'oklahoma,oklahoma,oklahoma,oklahoma' untill someone threatens me with the genital cuff.
If its the norm, it not abberrant. though it may still be crazy.
If someone accused you of being a lunatic for driving 65 and obeying the speed limit, you wouldnt take it personal. You would just blink and say.. 'yeah. I guess I am a lunatic. and?'
When you squirm and are offended by accusations, it creates resistance and persistance.
typical woman = (insert your favorite cliche here.)
But with H's erratic behavior, resentement built and I had more anger and wanted him to just go away when he approached me. Sorry, just being honest.
When you need something that you feel is very important, even critical, and are denied it, how do you feel? Do you get angry, then a little desperate, and finally even anxious or panicky? Is that not a typical reaction of human beings? Could it be that the behavior your H displays is a sign of how important it is for him to feel bonded and connected to you?
Have you tried to put yourself in his shoes? That is not easy to do if you do not know how men think and react. Your H is not you. I strongly suggest you pick up Dr. Laura’s book to understand the mind of men. You do not have to agree with how they think, just accept it. We do not need to agree with how women think, but we must deal with it so we must accept it. Your H has had to accept your rejections even though he does not agree with it. How do think that makes him feel? Is it such a wonder he found comfort with someone else who accepted him?
I am NOT saying his actions were correct. But his emotions and feelings are typical, normal and to be expected. HIS problem is his own weakness, neediness and inability to express himself to you in a way that allows you two to connect.
Sex used to be enjoyable to me only sometimes. But most of the time, I just wanted to get it over with. But part of that was me not knowing what makes me tick and also that feeling of it being "wrong" becuase I wasn't married.
I assume you see that your views and reactions toward sex have to do with your own issues. Yet to avoid facing these issues, to avoid going into yourself to see what it was that made you feel guilty, you punished him instead and avoided your own pain. Again, how do you think that makes him feel?
You have a lot of work in front of you. You will find the answers you need here. Give us more information concerning FOO for both you and your H.
I love the MLC board. I have read it since I came here 3 yrs ago. There are more warm fuzzies over there, and more of an opportunity to examine yourself over here. That's a generalization, of course.
Cobra, You can come across as attacking towards women, but when you tone that down a bit, you have so much to offer. Your attachment theory post is one of my favorites. If some MLCers come this way, let them see that brilliance.
If someone accused you of being a lunatic for driving 65 and obeying the speed limit, you wouldnt take it personal. You would just blink and say.. 'yeah. I guess I am a lunatic. and?'
Hehe, MrsGGB calls every driver that isn't travelling at the same speed she is an idiot. The kids call her on it all the time.
Except, blackfoot, if I were to say some "typical woman" cliche, I'd be branded a sexist pig, male chauvinist, narrow minded, etc.
I indicated that much of my reaction to peaceful's post was because I hear that kind of talk from my wife. Consider it batting practice for when I decide to jump into the pit and fight with her over this issue.
However, you do have a point. It would probably be easier on myself to just shrug it off and say, "Yep, that's me." I just felt the need to educate, albeit in a particularly cranky way.
Do you know what turns you on? Have you told him explicitly even if its mental, not physical.
