Mrs cac-- I also have an EXTREMELY sensitive sense of smell. Once when driving with a former bf across Arizona in his 1968 Chevy, I said, "The car is about to overheat. I can smell the radiator water." He blew me off, but sure enough... a few miles later... geyser from under the hood.
My bf is quite fastidious and is put off by natural bodily secretions and smells. Once recently he heard something on TV that I didn't quite catch, and he made a bunch of disgusted noises. I asked him what was said. He balked at telling me, then said, "Don't say I didn't warn you!" When he told me it was some medical, digestive thing that involved anal discharges or something. Huh? I guess 30+ years of emptying kitty pans has made me immune to scatological references. He also doesn't do the usual male fart jokes, references, etc. (I'm VERY grateful for this.)
The down side (as it were) is he won't do oral sex on me. Another guy I dated wanted to LIVE Down There.
Mrs cac wrote I'm sorry you never felt safe with your father. I remember being at a friend's house and watching her father, and wondering why I couldn't have a father like that.
I totally relate to this. When I was in high school I had two girlfriends who were sisters. They had a very close family and a great relationship with their dad. One time the dad got trench mouth from a dirty drinking glass and one of the girls said, "We won't be able to kiss our dad for six weeks!" (or something) I was fascinated by this, as I NEVER kissed my father ever-- not once in my entire life.
One of the things I love about my bf is the R he has with his daughters (18-year old twins). He is so affectionate, respectful, patient, delighted, appreciative, supportive with them. He doesn't cross any lines and yet he's always available. They are SO lucky to have a dad like him. If he only treated me half as well as he treats them. He never snaps at them or acts impatient. He listens to their endless anecdotes about their college lives, asks questions, laughs at their stories-- he absolutely adores them. They're very lucky.
Lil, your response to Cobra's post about teasing is spot on.
Lil wrote about her father: I don't think he meant anything by it... he wasn't a cruel person, just depressed, angry, and socially inept. I don't hold this against him.
I feel the same way about my father. I forgave him (in my mind) a long time ago.
I'm trying to understand this because teasing is more a male thing than a female thing I think. Teasing, joking, testing are all ways that boys bond.
IMO general teasing is not necessarily the problem mrs.cac4 and LP had with their fathers. I just do not that there is any way to tease about sexuality to a developing daughter in a way that isn't minimally uncomfortable and potentially damaging. The teasing about body development, sex, etc. makes the relationship with the father seem inappropriate and can make sex seem "dirty". Of course avoiding your daughter as she sexually matures can be just as damaging because it again sends a signal that her sexuality is a "problem".
Mrs.cac4, I admire your willingness to write about your background and your issues. I am so sorry when I read about women who have had issues like yours with your father. It seems so unfair but again I admire that you are taking the step to move past those issues.
I am fortunate that my dad was great. I never even had to think about such issues. The closest I can come to having ANY understanding is when I was 17 and running track. I had finished poorly in the 400 or 800 meter race and my uncle came over and said that I had "a body for love and not for speed" and in a "weird" tone. ICCKKK and honestly my uncle isn't a bad guy and that's about the worst thing he ever said like that. BUT it was just gross and uncomfortable. I just have passed it off as weird Uncle XX being inappropriate. Just the fact that I still remember it 20 years later must show how significant something like that can be. I cannot even imagine what it must be like for your father to say even worse things on a more regular basis from an even younger age.
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Lucky for me I was a late bloomer. I didn't get a period until around my 14th birthday, and breasts followed after that. By this age I was able to "handle" it, but I have always struggled with acceptance of my woman body.
This is such an interesting issue to me - coping mechanisms. In this example you learned ways to "handle" the problems you had with your father. And they worked well FOR THAT SITUATION - to protect you from your father. But then those same "good" coping mechanisms probably were/are part of the problem with your H.
Good Luck to you and cac4
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I get what you’re saying, and the reason I asked is that my wife does not seem to understand the male teasing thing very well. She thinks men are dumb because they do not make themselves emotionally vulnerable like women do (and by implication like she does???) So I’m wondering why it is she seems to hate this aspect of men.
I also wonder if she had a stronger sense of herself as a woman, then she could be more confident in viewing male behavior objectively. I also think that a strong, confident, but feminine woman can go a long way to balancing an overly male father. I hear what you’re saying about sexual abuse and innuendo, but even there, if it is only comments (not physical abuse) a strong caring mother can help to balance even this in the child.
I look at the work Corri is trying to do. To me, she is working on becoming a real woman. As such I do not see her threatened by typical male behavior, whereas before, she might have found it extremely insensitive and hurtful. So for my wife, I still think there is a lot blame on her mother, not just her father.
I don't mean this as a rhetorical question, but literally: why do you see it as important that she understand the way men/boys bond with peer teasing?
If she understood this in the way that you want her to, how would that change things between you two?
you wrote She thinks men are dumb because they do not make themselves emotionally vulnerable like women do (and by implication like she does???)
How does this thinking of hers affect your relationship? This seems like a pretty unproductive observation on your part (and on hers, too). So straighten me out-- what does it matter?
By the way, my father did tease me a lot and so did my brothers, my grandfather, cousins, etc. and I enjoyed it. I also teased them right back. It still wasn't the same as the "locker room" teasing guys do but that's between guys. The important part about teasing is to be aware of the other persons reactions. Another good check is to think - do they tease me back in the same manner? If not, you might want to rethink how you're teasing.
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if it is only comments (not physical abuse) a strong caring mother can help to balance even this in the child.
The idea of a strong mother being able to balance out inappropriate comments and innuendo from the father doesn't seem possible to me. I don't have experience here but I just don't see how that's possible. The point is that the girl's interaction with her male role model is not appropriate and confuses her sexual development. How can the mother ultimately affect that? I would agree that she can potentially minimize the effect but balance it doesn't seem possible. My opinion anyway
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I'm no bed of roses either. I've learned that I tend to be very critical, and it is something I am trying to change about myself...very hard to do. We have six children: S17, S14, S10, D9, S3 and S2. Right now S17 is giving us the most fits. He's a good kid, at least when he's not around us. He's got in his head that I hate him, and no matter how I try to approach him his dander gets up and it ends up confrontational. The two little ones also take a lot of energy. S3 is by far the most physical, he was walking by 9 months and climbing out of his crib about 3 days after that. Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll go find it.
He's got in his head that I hate him, and no matter how I try to approach him his dander gets up and it ends up confrontational.
If you were very critical of him, then he probably feels that you don't love him FOR WHO HE IS. On a conscious level, I knew that my mother didn't "hate" me, but I never felt that she loved me or even liked me some times. She was very critical because that's the way she is, but even more so because I wasn't like her.
Let's put it this way... Suppose you had a partner who spewed a load of utter disgust and contempt for the hundreds of c-unts he may have emptied himself into (as an extreme example). How would that knowledge affect you, even though he never said anything like that directly to you?
I would think it might cause you to put up a wall, just in case. More importantly it would be a defense on his part to avoid some deeper issue, but one that might keep you at a certain distance too. I don't think these attitudes are healthy for the R. They inhibit intimacy.
In my case, maybe I should be more differentiated so that it doesn't affect me, but isn't that another form of defense, one that need not be there at all. Purge the poor attitude and the whole problem goes away. So I think it can be very important.
