Many new folks here don't know me but I used to be very active on this board a few years ago. If quantity of sexual initiation by my spouse was a measure of success, then my story might not be very inspiring. But if developing new relationship skills and self-respect while simultaneously shedding anxiety is a measure of success, then I was fairly successful. The most important discovery for me was that the place I arrived was much different than what I was optimistically envisioning when I started the process.
In this post, I hope to document how things played out over the past couple years; during which time I haven't been actively "working on the R". And despite my reports of "success", I'm still questioning whether or not I'm on the right path.
With a combination of Schnarch, and an expensive C, and a Gottman audio book, we seemed to reach a place where I could at least express my desires with a respectful response. I could accept rejection without taking it personally. I could ask for sex and have my W generally say yes almost 90% of the time and she would enjoy herself when would be together. I soon discovered that I didn't need as much sex as I thought I did. I was seeking an increase in sex to relieve anxiety. Until I figured out the connection, I was essentially punishing my W with the long conversations and trips to the C (at least in the beginning). In my speech to the SSM Freshman class, I would have to caution you to be VERY careful how you engage your spouse in the process. Get counseling for yourself for a few months before bringing your spouse in. I made a complete a$$ out of myself in the beginning which has probably strengthened some of the armor around my W's real issues.
Schnarch talks about 3 traits of a differentiated person - ability to self-soothe, ability to fearlessly reveal yourself, desires, wants, etc., and your ability to be comfortable in your own skin rather than require the validation of others. Observing other people (and my relationships with people) through a Schnarch-filter has woken me up to the validity of his teachings. I even learned to stand up to my mom who I finally "saw" as an manipulative, other-validated person who punishes those who don't validate her and probably a big contributer to some of my issues.
My C taught us to live in the moment and to ML in the moment. When our frequency began to increase, I had anxiety that it wouldn't last. When we would backslide, I had anxiety that it was a sign of things to come. When feeling frisky, I would feel anxious about initiating because of her past track record of rejection. Live in the moment, feel in the moment, and when it's good, enjoy the moment. This is a major reason for me leaving the boards...it became too difficult to live in the moment when I'm recounting the past and plotting out tactics in the future.
My C also taught me that following others stories though these boards and through self-help books is a form of fantasy. You inevitably project the success of others into your own situation which is a recipe for...you guessed it...more anxiety.
At the very tail end of actively working on the R, I stumbled into a Buddhist meditation class. For some surprising reason, it all finally "clicked". I developed the understanding of my anxiety and it's relationship to everything. Actually, there's a lot of great things that can come from guided meditation. Reduced anxiety = increased differentiation.
So that's what I learned. Here's what I've done since....
Increased differentiation isn't as much about talk as it is action. It's your actions that push your partner into a crucible more than words. It takes a "living in the moment" attitude to be successful at this because thinking about possible outcomes can be otherwise paralyzing.
In this process, I realized what I *really* liked and disliked. In the past, I always let my W have the final say on what we did, where we lived, how the house was decorated, etc. I finally realized that a big portion of our problems came from my boredom in a stagnant, suburban America. I then seized an opportunity to do something outrageously different and took an overseas job in a bustling city along side 13M other people. I HIGHLY recommend voluntarily making a dramatic life change with a spouse in order to get better insights into the person you married.
The Present
I'm having the time of my life and finally feeling alive while my W is essentially along for this wild ride. Thus, she has been simmering in the crucible for the past year and a half. Out of this, I've had moments where I've been extremely attracted to her and some really low moments where her issues changed the way I see her. Before we left, I thought she was gong to be the one that "grounded" me during this experience, but it's turning out to be the other way around. Her TV-mediated, suburban "comfort" zone in the US prevented her from facing these issues or possibly realizing that she even had issues.
If I (against my C's advice) step "out of the moment" and look objectively about how we've both changed since living here, it might appear that we are growing apart in interests. We've always been almost opposite in our interests but this seems to be making me more turned on with international living and her more interested in moving back to the burbs....and not just any burbs. She wants to move back to the town with her parents...where I vowed never to move back to. Feels like we are both going to be cooking in the crucible soon. We actually opted for an additional year and I think it's because we both having such differing views on where we want to go. I want to respect her feelings but it's hard to judge whether I'm playing into her issues and ultimately resenting myself (and her) for doing so. Only time will tell. I guess I should take one day at a time.
So what about the sex? This is where some of you might see my success story as being not-so-successful. All of us would love to have our spouse take more initiative. I think I'm still a bit sour-grapes that she's wired this way.
She's a classic "not want to want" type. This makes her peaceful about giving me space to do things with friends but makes her a better roommate than a spouse. I'd love to give her something but she doesn't want anything. BUt again, through the SSM issue we worked through a bunch of other issues and I'm in a much better place because of it.
Last edited by NotATLDave; 02/28/0705:51 PM.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Hmmm… interesting post…. Good to hear from you and glad to hear things are going well for you. It doesn’t sound to me like things are going so well for your spouse. Is she growing more and more resentful over having to move to China and leave her creature comforts and family so you can find yourself? I used to live overseas when I was a kid and know that it is usually one spouse or the other (usually the wife) that has to table their career to make such a move. If she is a SAHM mom, then it can work out fine. If not, she can become more and more anxious to get back to a career that may be leaving her behind.
Add to that your hesitancy to move back to her hometown and she might feel that she is making all the sacrifices just for you. Could she be thinking that you are keeping her away from her family so you do not have to confront your mother? It sounds like your C has done a great job of boosting your esteem, but has s/he considered your wife? Even the "not want to want" types can grow resentful. They just take a little longer.
Thank you for posting, Dave. A lot to digest, for sure, but it sounds like you are, at the very least, a Schnarch-success story, if not a SSM success story.
My "goal" hasn't even gotten to the "wish my spouse would initiate more" stage as I'm clearly still at the "wish my spouse would recognize my 'want' as valid" stage. Still, it sounds like your goals have changed a bit over time.
Quote:
In this process, I realized what I *really* liked and disliked.
Hah...I remember one of the first sessions you talked about with your counselor, and she asked what you preferred to be called, Dave or David. You said something like, "Either one. I don't care." She said, "Why?" That got your attention.
Hairdog, who just mailed some Happy Chinese New Year cards out to family and friends.
Hi Dave, I've seen you post from time to time, but I wasn't around this forum when your story unfolded. It sounds like you've at least gotten a lot of clarity about your circumstances....
At the very tail end of actively working on the R, I stumbled into a Buddhist meditation class. For some surprising reason, it all finally "clicked". I developed the understanding of my anxiety and it's relationship to everything. Actually, there's a lot of great things that can come from guided meditation. Reduced anxiety = increased differentiation.
This is the next step for me in my personal development....can you expand a little, talk about what you've learned, any recommendations you might have for tapes, books, classes, etc.
Thanks!
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
The Art of Happiness, by the Dalai Lama Going to Pieces Without Falling Apart, by Mark Epstein. Thoughts Without A Thinker: Psychotherapy from a Buddhist Perspective, also by Mark Epstein Emotional Alchemy: How the Mind Can Heal the Heart, by Tara Bennett-Goleman
I've also heard that Meditation for Dummies and The Art of Meditation by Daniel Goleman are very good but haven't managed to locate either of them.
And everybody should read David Sedaris' Dress Your Family in Courdoroy and Denim and Me Talk Pretty One Day just because, even though they won't make you a better person. Hairdog will back me up on this.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Great, thanks. What about meditations on CD that just calm you, like to listen to in the car?
I'm particularly curious about the class Dave found because, even though I'm not exactly religious, I've been thinking about trying church. I'm pretty convinced that it's not for me however and I really think a meditation class could fill the void I'm looking to fill.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Yoga centers often offer meditation classes. That's a place to start. You've also got Edgar Cayce's Association for Research and Enlightenment center right there, but you'll have check that out for yourself to decide if it's what you're looking for.
Can't help with CDs...
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
That's right! Thanks for reminding me about the Edgar Cayce center, I never knew about it and then my Healing Touch therapist told me about it and then I forgot.
Thanks, lol.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
