HELP FOR A NEWBIE TO PIECING ASAP, PLEASE!!!!

[2940831]

HELP PLEASE!!!!

I am new to piecing and am desperately in need of some suggestions quickly! Feel like I'm losing my mind and need to get grounded again.

Briefly, H was having a PA with OW. I found out a few months ago. He told me he had decided to work on our M and to give us another chance but that he just wasn't sure when. He lied to me and told me that he was not staying with her (he wasn't staying at home), and I found out that he was - complete devastation. He still told me that he was planning on giving us another chance. I hung in there and DB'd the best I could after doing the whole begging, crying, pleading thing. The DB'g seemed to help, as I did see baby steps. Long story short for this part, H came home a few weeks ago. I was absolutely thrilled and so excited to begin piecing.

However, my "twist" is that when he did come home, I guess I thought he was making the commitment to our marriage again. However, apparently I misunderstood? While I expected things to be awkward for quite some time, I thought he would be supportive and loving towards me again - that didn't happen. He did want to ML to me, which we have done often since he came home. But outside of the bedroom, he just wasn't there. He didn't want to talk about the R or the OW at all and got extremely defensive if I even approached the subject cautiously. I felt I needed to have a game plan for how we were going to tackle our reconciliation. That didn't mean that we had to tackle it now, just that I wanted to know that we were on the same page. I also wanted to make sure that he had ended it with the OW.

I feel like I've been walking on eggshells ever since he's been home. Although I was miserable when he was not staying at home, I guess I was getting into a routine with that and always had the hope that he was going to follow through on his word to come home and give us another chance. I knew I just needed to be patient but that I was hopefully going to get the chance I so desperately wanted. Then, how disappointed I was when he came home and wasn't all "there." It was as if he was physically home but that he wasn't "in the game" with me.

We had a trip scheduled for several months (way before I found out about the A). He kept reassuring me that he wanted to go on that trip as H and W and that he would be home by then, etc. Well, it went right up to him not coming home until a week before the trip, but at least he came home, and he stayed home for that whole week.

Our trip was for another week or so, so we were together pretty much 24/7 for that whole time. It was business as well as pleasure, and a lot of our business friends were there, so it wasn't as if it was just the two of us, but we were still sleeping in the same room and together the whole time.

We did ML a few times on the trip, but he also turned me down a few times, too. I was feeling so distant from him and hurting so much inside and was struggling with what to do. I had hoped I would be able to let my guard down and start working together on how we got to this mess and start just having fun together again. None of that was happening, which was tearing me up inside.

I ended up breaking down on the 2nd day of our trip and asking him some R questions - I just couldn't take it anymore and really felt like I needed to understand where he was at. I was angry that he wouldn't at least give me that. At any rate, what it came down to is that he said he just needed some space and that everything was going to be fine with us in time. I was okay with that and agreed to give him space and that we would work on it when he was ready.

The next several days of the trip were okay. We had nice times together. I told him that it made me feel better if he would hold my hand and kiss me when we weren't in the bedroom, that it made me feel close to him, but that I only wanted him to do that if he felt comfortable with it. He started doing that(at least hand-holding) immediately, which made me feel really good.

Then, the night before we left, he happened to be talking on my phone, and his phone rang. I went to grab it for him and just missed the call. I looked on the "missed calls" list to see who it was for him (completely innocently), and I noticed that there were two missed text messages that day from the OW.

Well, that was all it took. I couldn't take it anymore and absolutely had to have a conversation about this. I had purposely not "gone there" yet as far as asking him about the OW and how he had left things with her. He told me the first night he came home that he had resolved things with her, and I assumed that meant that he had told her that he was going to give us another chance. But I had not asked him again about her. Then, when I saw the missed texts, I just couldn't take it anymore.

Well, long story short for that night, we talked for about 3 hours, got about 2 hours of sleep and woke up again, talked for about 3 more hours, got a few minutes more of sleep, and woke up. We talked about so much, but the important parts for now are that he said he only told the OW that he needed some time to sort through things and that he was going on this trip, etc. He did NOT tell her that he had decided to give us another chance, which tore me up. I asked him why, and he said he just didn't want to hurt anyone. I asked him if he didn't tell her because he really wasn't intending on giving us another chance, and he said he didn't know. He also said that he hadn't decided whether he wanted to work on our M and that he was hurting and confused. He asked me a few questions about if we could not be married anymore but still continue our business together, which tore me up. We talked about that a bit. The next morning, after not getting much sleep for either of us, I told him I was sorry if I said some things I shouldn't have, and he said that he was sorry, too. I asked him if we could agree to just not make any rash decisions and work on our marriage slowly, like we had agreed the other day. He said that would be fine. We then ML. I had a pit in my stomach the whole day after the difficult night of finding out about the texts and having the hard conversations. We came home from our trip later that night. We got home this past Sunday.

So Sunday he stayed at home. I came home, and he was asleep on the couch. I tried to get him up to bed, but he was too tired, so I just let him sleep. I slept in the guest bedroom just in case he had purposely fallen asleep on the couch and not wanted to sleep with me. He came up to bed in the middle of the night.

On Monday night he worked really late, and later in the evening before I came home I stopped by where he was working and asked him some business questions and then just asked him if I could ask him a few questions, as I was feeling sick to my stomach from being so unsettled still about things. He said I could. We just talked for maybe 15 minutes, and I asked him about some of the things he had said the other night. He told me he didn't want to talk about it then and that he would agree to still work on our marriage and would agree that if I gave him some space he would not just come home one day and say it was over, that he would talk with me and work through things. I pushed too much, and he got angry. I tried to smooth things over the best I could before I left and told him I was sorry and that I really just wanted to do the right things for our M. I asked him what i could do to support him. He said there was nothing I could do differently. I ended up leaving and then coming back again, as he said he wasn't sure if he was coming home, that he might work all night. I told him that I hoped he would please put himself in my shoes and understand how hard it would be under the circumstances for him to just not come home. He got really angry at that, which I didn't expect. I apologized again if I was out of line and left.

He slept at our office last night. I woke up about 3 in the morning and couldn't sleep and decided I needed to know if he was with her, so I drove out to check. He was at our office, which gave me a huge sense of relief.

So today I worked really hard on just going back to hard core DB'g again as far as not contacting him, etc., and just giving him some space. I thought we were through that part of this whole thing but realized that maybe that's what he still needs. So I didn't talk to him until yesterday afternoon, and it was just for a few minutes on the phone. He told me that he was on his way to a meeting at 5:30, and I asked him to call me when he was done, and he said he would.

I didn't hear from him and called around 7 to let him know that i was done with a meeting I had and to call me when he was done. I didn't hear from him and ended up snooping again to see if he had gone over to OW house. I did not find his car but may have missed it.

So I got home, and to my horror I discovered that he had packed a bag again with clothes... I was absolutely devastated. I resisted the urge to try to call him again and also to go back out looking for him. Instead, I paced around the house for a while and then got back out yet again the Divorce Remedy book to look for some more answers.

After re-reading some sections, I feel like that we just took things too fast. He wanted me to just act like nothing happened (he even TOLD me that that was what he wanted for now). I attempted to do that by being myself, asking to ML to him (which was the main reason this whole thing happened - my lack of sex drive), and working on being close to him again. Although the majority of the time he agreed to my ML advances, the rest of the time he felt so distant, and he definitely was not in that supportive, I'm ready to work on this with everything I am state of mind. He hates reading, so I had gotten a relationship book on CD for us to hopefully listen to on the plane. When I asked him about whether he wanted to listen with me, he said no, that he just wanted to relax. So I just let it go with sadness in my heart. Later during our marathon conversation that one evening, he told me that when he had seen that in our luggage it just made his skin crawl... I don't know why? He obviously is just not in the right place to be willing to work on us.

At any rate, there are more details obviously, but I wanted to be as brief as I could and still get the basics out there. It's the middle of the night now, and I've worken up again and just wanted to see if it might help me through the night to post here and get some things off my chest and get some advice. My thoughts are that we just went back into things too fast, he wasn't ready to commit again fully, I was hurt and feeling rejected and confused and not supported and went back to my old pleading, crying ways, and now I've pushed him away again.

I've resisted my urge to go out looking for him again tonight to see if he's at OW's house but have a feeling that that is where he is at. By the way, he told me that there had been a few texts back and forth between them since he had been home but that it was "shallow" conversations. He said the texts I saw (which I didn't read) just asked how he was doing and whatnot.

So, my question is what do I do tomorrow? I'm so angry that he did not have the guts to tell me in person or even leave me some sort of note that he was leaving again. I asked him when we had our short phone conversation yesterday if everything was okay with us, and he said it was. And at that point he had already been home and gotten his stuff, so he already knew what he was planning but chose to say nothing about it and rather to reassure me, I'm sure just to avoid conflict. But to not bother to call me later or have left a note and to let me just come home to find that - I thought that was really cruel and insensitive.

As must as I know he probably just needs some space right now, I feel like I need to talk to him after this has happened now and see what is going on. I'm afraid that we will have another bad conversation and don't want to push him away even further with that, but at the same time, don't I have a right to know what his plans are now? He promised me that he would not just come home and say that he had had enough and that we were done, and he just told me a couple of nights ago that he was still willing to work on us... I'm so confused. And he said that he was confused, too.

I felt like I've pushed him back into her arms again possibly, but I could be overreacting. I just don't know anymore. I was doing so good at DB'g with detaching and the LRT before he came home, and then I guess I thought once he came home the healing would begin, and I was working on being loving and supportive, only to be pushed away by him. I was torn, as I didn't want to act non-supportive and non-loving for fear he would think that I didn't care. It seems looking back that I should have kept my distance more. We only had really those few conversations about the R since he came home, but I guess that was enough to push him away again. I just felt like I had a right to at least know where things stood and to feel supported in that way - I have been through so much the past few months while he was not at home and being so patient while I waited for him. Then for him to come home and not really be all "there" was completely devastating.

Okay. That's enough for now! Please help!!!! As much as I want to DB tomorrow and not even bring up that he didn't come home, I just feel like I can't overlook this and at least need to see what he has to say so that I know what I'm dealing with. What should I do???

[Just_Me]

I'm pretty blunt usually.

You aren't piecing, at least not what I would consider piecing. I consider it two people committed to making their marriage work and repairing the damage. He isn't on that page. He's just as liable to leave as stay and just as likely to cheat with OW some more as not. You have justifiable trust issues. He shouldn't be trusted. I personally don't even know why you let him back into the house. Your self-esteem has to be in the gutter to take this kind of b.s.

My advice, and you'll probably get many dissenting opinions, is that unless he's completely done with the OW, I would ask him to leave. Yeah, he'll possibly run back to her, but then again, he might suddenly wake up and smell the coffee. He knows he doesn't have to work to regain your trust because you're so desperate to have him and needy. That's the only way to describe it. If I had a woman that needed me so badly that she walked on eggshells after I screwed up, I would have very little respect for her and feel I could do whatever. You have got to quit being his doormat. I predict that even if you somehow work this out, you'll build up enough resentment that you won't be able to do this anymore. He needs to be apologetic and willing to assuage your fears; not put you off with anger. He needs to kiss your a$$; so why is it that you are kissing his?

[cat03]

about him and the R CD, my H is the same, he groans if I even mention any R book we could read, it is just hard for most men to talk R, specially if you guys already had marathon talks about it, it's not just him.

You can not expect him to pick up where you guys left off *when things were good*, meaning, expecting him to be all loving and be happy that you *now* want to ML w/him. Lack of sex was part of the reason my H drifted appart from me, so he admitted it felt odd that now I'm the one who wants it all the time. For the longest time it was the other way around w/me turning him down 70-80% of the time, so he isnt' used to this new me. He doesn't feel connected w/you yet, that's why he doens't want to ML all the time, despite what most women think (that men only want sex to pleasure themselves) men must feel a connection to want to have sex.

I advice you to read "For Women Only Discussion Guide: A Companion to the Bestseller about the Inner Lives of Men", it will open up your eyes.

As far as OW, I agree w/Just_Me, the cards should've been laid down before he moved in that there was to be no contact, however casual with the ow. Will it take time to get her out of his mind? yes, will he need time to work that out? yes.

Here a few posters from very wise people who posted on my threads when I felt desperate that H wans't moving fast enough in out R:

===========
Nothing dramatic, nothing angry....just done out of peace and respect. The more I let him go and showed him unconditional love the more he would come closer to me. he even told me later when I did this it drew him closer to me " cause it felt like I believed in him!"
I think you need to give him alot of space and allow yourself to heL CAUSE YOU HAVE A HARD PART TO GO THRU IF HE TRULY WNATS TO RECONCILE. aND DO NOT RUSH ANYTHING, YOU WANT HIM YOU WANT HIM TO GROW. NOT FORCE HIM TOO.

JOKERMAN WOULD TELL ME NOT TO PUSH AT ALL CAUSE HE WOULD BE MORE DRAWN TO WANT TO BE A PART OF THE ow. I loved the advice he gave me and I will tell you that sometimes I thought well
me??? I do not push but upon further examination of myself I realized as humble as I am I could let go more and get thru the fear and soothe myself not expect him to fix my PAIN>

A month ago he would have not been as calm or sweet about this subject. It will be a BATTLE honey but if this is what you really want then prepare yourself. you will need lots of strength, it tests your love for yourself to go thru this. I knew that i had to be strong to get thru this and not let my emotions rule me. Be his safe place to land and by that I do not mean be a doormat, be strong be yourself but do not cause any drama be calm. I feel as though I was rambling a bit but I hope you get some good out of waht I have sadi to you. I care alot BOUT YOU AND WISH YOU ALL THE BEST BUT REMEBER THAT IT WIL TAKE TIME. i STILL LOOK AT MY h AND WANT TO CRY CAUSE i CANNO T BELIEVE i MADE IT THRU AND HELD ON WHEN i FELT LIKE HE WAS KILLING ME WHILE ALIVE AND i HELD ON AND STAYED STRONG AND NEVER GAVE UP AND MOST OF ALL DID NOT SCREAM, SHOW ANGER OR BE MENA TO HIM. I WAS HUMBLE AND I WAS WHO GOD WOULD LIKE FOR ME TO BE. I WAS ACTING IN A WAY THAT WOULD MAKE GOD HIMSELF PROUD OF ME. And I would remind myself when I felt my temper coming ON " WILL WHAT I AM ABOUT TO DO HELP ME REACH MY GOAL? IF NOT THEN DO NOT SAY IT OR DO IT.
----
Love yourself enough to know that you are beautiful, worthwhile, precious, caring,loving, important, sexy, loved, valued and amazing ..
.... carry with you a love for yourself that helps you shine even when the world seems out to get you, be the beautiful Woman that is there underneath all the fear, underneath all the bull sh*t that has been done to you, and ABOVE someone who would ever allow herself to get involved with YOUR husband to begin with. You are better than that do not let her rob you of your happiness. Long and short of it love yourself and show him love like he never hurt you.
...be the fun, smiling person you used to be before he took your heart out and hung it to dry. I always felt as though my h tied me to the back of his truck and forgot to look back and then when he finally untied me,, I had a lot of healing to do...
......... you can do this kepp coming here for support. Love x, love and love some more, allow him to grow and become the man he needs to be for you and most of all for himself.

I can go to bed at nite knowing I did everything in my Power to be the beautiful person I am and to rise above their Sh*t and still live in THE ....light. I remained faithful and worked towards my miracle. I know you can do this too.
..... for you have integrity too.
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You are breeding negativity.
STOP IT.
Can you just allow yourself to dare to think something GOOD about your husband?
Of course the man is not "happy"!
He is thinking of how long it's going to take to get back into your good graces, how long until you stop expecting the worst from him, how long until you have faith that he will do something other than screw up, how long til you will really love him again and the two of you can truly be a healed family.
HOW can he EVER believe in HIMSELF when NO ONE BELIEVES IN HIM??
It's your move.
The man needs a wife that is going to stand behind him and lift him up when the rest of the world pisses on him.
A wife that believes in him although at times he doubts himself.
He needs someone to give him a chance.
Your daughters need someone to give Daddy a chance.
If he screws it up, you have the option of filing for divorce and I won't even bat an eye if you do. I will understand.
But as sure as WE all screw up and Jesus forgives US, we need to forgive those that hurt us and need another chance.
It's up to you.
Fear or faith?
Which one are you gonna feed tonight?
I don't give a rat's ass about history or odds or statistics.
WHAT IF WHATEVER HAPPENS IS SOLELY DETERMINED BY YOUR ACTIONS AND ATTITUDES?
What if.....?
-----------------
Whatever proves to be the hardest thing for you to do is precisely what you HAVE to do.
If it's bringing up OP, then you have to stop.
You just have to stop it.
You're giving her too much power.
SHE'S NOTHING.


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"The very nature of being the "third party" (OW or OM) instead of the "spouse" means it's a fantasy relationship. When people are in affairs, they present a side of themselves that's not representative of the whole person. It's a special version of their best aspects, free from the normal responsibilities involved in sharing a total life situation; whereas the roles and structure of family life create many restrictions and responsibilities. A person's affair is not so much a rejection of the mate as a rejection of these role restrictions. This awareness can be especially helpful in dealing with our feelings of comparison with the third party."
--------------------------

[phoenix2]

The advice given to cat would be more applicable to your situation if it didn't seem as though he's still trying to pick between you and the OW. I'm all for being compassionate, loving, etc to help him mend if he actually wants to be with you.

Can you just allow yourself to dare to think something GOOD about your husband?
Of course the man is not "happy"!
He is thinking of how long it's going to take to get back into your good graces, how long until you stop expecting the worst from him, how long until you have faith that he will do something other than screw up, how long til you will really love him again and the two of you can truly be a healed family.
HOW can he EVER believe in HIMSELF when NO ONE BELIEVES IN HIM??

I saw nothing in your post to indicate your H feels like this. From his actions and words, it sounds like he feels justified rather than he screwed up. It also seems like he's got tons of self-esteem...he's God's gift to women and you are lucky to have him back. Now he's got to decide if he wants to be back.

I don't believe that when they come back finally, remorseful, and anxious to get back into your good graces that you should rake him over the coals. But when he's still playing both sides, he's neither sorry, nor learned anything from this experience, and he's certainly not worthy of trust.

[2940831]

Thanks so much to everyone for your advice and suggestions.

I feel absolutely horrible today - I'm physically sick to my stomach and can't even think straight. I made an appointment to see my doctor to ask if I can get some sort of muscle relaxers or something. I have so much work to do and just can't even focus. I am so incredibly distraught and feel so alone and lost.

I have not talked with H yet today. I'm sure I'll see him at some point and know I need to talk to him. That may not be the best thing to do, as I know it's pressure, but at the same time I just have to at least know where his mind is at right now and if he has gone back to OW. He may lie about it, but I at least need to ask. I just feel like if I don't even know where his mind is at then I don't know what to do next. I know he didn't stay at the office last night, but I drove by the OW house this morning and didn't see his car there either. That doesn't mean he hadn't already left there or wasn't parked somewhere else, but I didn't see him. I was doing so good before of not snooping before he came home, and things were going so well considering the circumstances (I thought). Snooping feels horrible, but at the same time, I'm in that place again where I just need to know the truth about what is going on.

What should I do now? I guess maybe I'll know better after I talk with him - hopefully I'll see him today at some point. I thought about asking him if we could just slow things way down and just work on being friends again and see how that feels. But can we even do that if he is not ready to completely give up the OW and come home? I just don't know.

I don't want to be a doormat. I want him to respect me. I know he knows that I'm just "waiting" for him and that in that regard he feels no immediate need or threat to get through this. At the same time, it's still very much in my heart and soul to want to save our marriage, and I honestly believe we can do that if I can somehow get him to get in the boat with me and work on this. I feel like we were so close and then that I screwed everything up. Because we have such a difficult time communicating about this, I wasn't comfortable bringing up the OW when he came home except for just asking if he has resolved things with her, and he said that he had. I left it at that for the time being, only to find out later that he had not told her that he planned on giving us another chance but only that he was going to take some time to sort things out.

I'm scared, isolated, lonely... I want to save my marriage!!! How do I fix this?

[Just_Me]

At the same time, it's still very much in my heart and soul to want to save our marriage, and I honestly believe we can do that if I can somehow get him to get in the boat with me and work on this.

Sometimes the means is counterintuitive. You have to save yourself first. You need to be happy in your own skin and optimistic about what your life holds for you, regardless of your H's actions. I truly believe that you need to let go. You can't force him into the boat with you, he needs to do that on his own. If he's still not even coming home and is avoiding you then he isn't there. And you aren't there either. You aren't ready to be with him. When you still feel the need to drive by work and her house, you are still desperately tied to him. He isn't the only one that needs time and space. You do to, possibly more than him. He came back too fast.

feel like we were so close and then that I screwed everything up.

You didn't do anything. That's what I mean about your self-esteem. He doesn't end things with the other woman and you feel bad for bringing it up? I'm sorry, I just can't understand sacrificing such important things as your self-esteem, confidence, etc for this. Save yourself first. Find the woman that at some point in her life had to be independent and happy with who she was.

[2940831]

Thank you again for your advice and encouragement. I'm listening and taking it all in.

Today was an interesting day. H seems to have jumped ship! No sign of him all day today, either by me or at the job site, which is highly unusual for him. In a hopefully inconspicuous way, I asked some of the folks on the job today if H had stopped by or if they knew if he was going to, and they said they hadn't been able to reach him all day. I played stupid and said I would give him a message when I spoke to him. No charges on the credit cards today either by him... I did drive by OW house, and I'm not positive that I know which car is hers, but if my guess is right, it appeared as if her car was home today instead of her being at work, as I believe she probably should have been at that time. That bothered me, but no sign that I could find of H's car there (doesn't mean I just didn't see it). I know that the snooping is bad - believe me. I went through this before he came home, and about 3 weeks or so before he came home, I decided to stop snooping altogether cold turkey, and I felt so much better! I guess it was just easier then because I knew he was probably there and that it tore me apart to find signs of that, so I just let it go. Now it's different again because I DON'T know if he's there or not. I suspect strongly that he is, but I don't know for sure.

As the afternoon progressed, I ended up getting extremely busy with work and appointments, which was probably for the better. I kept thinking about what you all said about my self-esteem, being a doormat, me doing nothing wrong, him coming home too soon, him not ending it completely with her, him being angry at ME, etc. I know this is all true, and I guess I am starting to feel even more angry about all of it, which I know isn't productive either... I know I'm a good, loving person and wife. I made some really bad mistakes, and I love this man with all of my heart and want to work on the mistakes I made. I have tried to be so loving and supportive in the few weeks he was back home. However, I know at some points I went overboard and became that clingy, needed, desperate person that he does not like and that pushes him away. Why wouldn't he want to be with her instead? No conflict to deal with, no issues to resolve - just the "happy, we're new to this, butterfly feelings" stuff. It just hurts so much to feel like he's considering throwing our M away (we've been married for almost 10 years) rather than first giving it everything he can to work on it. If we don't end up in a happy place together after both giving all that we can and care, then fine, we'll deal with what to do then. But for him to not even put his full heart and efforts into trying after the dreams we've built together, the magnificent business we've built together, the wonderful friends and family that we have, even just for the sake of each other -- I just don't get it.

I know he said he has given a piece of his heart to this other person, and he told me that he needed to get that back before he could be with me again. The problem is, I don't think he has done that. I have told him that I truly want him to be happy, whatever that is, but that my hope is that he will at least give everything he can to be happy with ME. If it doesn't work, then we'll deal with it then. I just don't want to live my life with regrets that the mistakes I made lead to this and that I didn't get the chance to fix them and to work to make him happy.

On the other hand, I'm feeling so isolated and unloved right now by him. It seems as if somehow if he's mean to me (not in a "mean" way, but just not loving, etc.) that it somehow makes it easier on him??? Again, I guess the whole problem is that I thought when he finally came home that that was it - game on. We're in this together, and we're going to work through this. And when that didn't happen and I felt the distance between us, I think that's when I got desperate again and started doing unproductive things and that that pushed him away even worse. I honestly didn't WANT to do that. I kept asking him what he needed from me, that I wanted to be supportive of him. And I told him that it hurt that he hadn't asked me once what I needed of him. To that end, I decided to tell him just a few things that would make me feel better, and he seemed open to doing those, which was encouraging. But when we had our marathon talk the other night, he told me that he was there for me as a friend and as a business partner but that he just wasn't there for me in a R standpoint. Wow, that felt nice.

So I think to myself, okay. I know I contributed grately to this whole A happening in the first place. I've taken responsibility for my part in that and feel awful about it and have apologized too many times to count. Then I sit at home for almost three months while he is staying most if not all of the time with OW (one month of which he was lying to me the whole month and telling me he was not staying with her), I "wait" for him, as he told me almost from day 1 of me finding out about this that he had decided to ultimately give our M another chance but just wasn't sure when that would be, let him back into our home, my bed, and my heart (to the best of my ability at this point), show him kindess, love, support - and this is what I get in return? To come home last night to a house that he has once again left without even a word to me, a note, anything? And this is after my phone conversation with him last night ending with "is everything okay with us?" And him replying "yes"? And then to disappear all day today from the world? It hurts that he could be so cruel. I know he's upset, but I just feel like I've been kicked in the stomach by someone who is supposed to care about me. He could have called and at least told me that he is okay and is going to take the day away somewhere (didn't even need to tell me where) and that he would touch base with me tomorrow. But he probably knew that I would try to pressure him into talking to me... I don't know. This is all such a mess.

Anyway, we'll see what tomorrow brings. Maybe it was good that I didn't talk with him today. Maybe that gave me, as you suggested, space that I need as well. I have even tinkered tonight with the thought of acting like nothing happened and not even asking him about it when I see him next. Although I think that would probably be a smart thing to do, I doubt I'll have the strength to do it. I just can't go on without knowing what he is thinking. The problem is, he tells me one thing one minute and another thing the next. I know he's just really confused right now. I'm just so tired of hurting so much.

Well, I need to try to get some rest tonight. I'm sure that will go well, right? Thanks again for all of your support and advice. God, please grant me the knowledge and the patience to get through this and to save our M...

[Just_Me]

I've taken responsibility for my part in that and feel awful about it and have apologized too many times to count.

BS, BS, and more BS. Why does everyone insist on taking responsibility for affairs. Long number lady, you weren't the ideal spouse, no one is, but he choice to cheat on you. He took the "easy" way out. And how many times did he apologize? I bet none because you beat him to the punch. All you did was provide him a good excuse, "yes, you pushed me to it". Blah!

Maybe that gave me, as you suggested, space that I need as well. I have even tinkered tonight with the thought of acting like nothing happened and not even asking him about it when I see him next.

I don't think you used that time as you probably could have. You drove by her house and perseverated on him. Not good. And I wouldn't act like nothing happened. I'm sure that most on here would suggest doing that. I personally wouldn't ask what was up...I'd just ask him to go. I'd collect his stuff and leave it in the entryway. Ask FindingLisa at what point her husband started crawling. ..it was when she told him to get out. It was when she stopped putting up with this. Stopped playing second fiddle to another woman.

Is this what you deserve from life? I think you deserve better. I'm not asking you to chuck 10 years of marriage out the window; I'm suggesting you let him go. Free yourself and him. He needs to work through whatever is going on (and there is no alien...that's just a convenient excuse for when the spouse starts thinking solely of themselves) and you need to find the strength, confidence, and happiness that is inside you. You can be happy and fulfilled without him. If he ever gets his head out, you can share that with him, if you still want to.

[2940831]

Thanks, Just Me. I really appreciate your insights. It helps so much to get some feedback from the outside looking in on this crap...

I do realize that I didn't cause this A to happen. It was definitely his choice, and it was the easy way out. However, I also realize that I played a huge role in his being unhappy enough to even go to that place, and for that, I must take responsibility. I've learned from Michele that it's important to figure out why these things happen and to learn from them; otherwise, it will just go back to the way it was before. To that end, I know my lack of sex drive and intimacy with H was heartbreaking for him - more so than I ever imagined until now. Yes, he made this very poor decision. And, while he has apologize for "hurting me," he's also told me that he doesn't feel guilty for it, and he's also been unable so far to say that he's just plain sorry for this decision he made. He feels horrible that I'm hurt, but he fails to take responsibility for his poor decision. You're right; it's almost as if he feels justified because he was apparently so incredibly unhappy with our lack of physical connection.

Yes, I do deserve better out of life. However, I want that life to be with him, and I want to make each other happy. Do I want to continue on like this forever? Absolutely not. Do I want to give this everything I can and am to make it work? Completely. If that means going through this horrible pain with an outcome of reconciliation and happiness with this man, I'm willing to keep fighting. As Michele says, only I can decide when I've had enough. I'm not even close to there yet. I am a fighter, and H is, too. That's part of what makes this so hard. He's willing to fight for everything in his life, but he seems to have given up on us. And it feels like our "problems" would be fixable given the opportunity... The problem right now, as you said, is that he has not recommmitted to our M. He said he was going to, but he didn't. Until he does, there is nothing that I can do. What I need to do now is to figure out what to do to have the best chance of him recommitting. Suggestions?

I did finally talk with him today for a short while. Of course he didn't apologize for anything, the least of which tearing my heart out when I came home to find him gone again... I asked him where he's been staying. He said he had just been "driving around." I asked him if he has been staying with OW, and he promised me not, but he's promised before, so that meant nothing. I'm fairly confident that he is staying with her again and just doesn't want to hurt me.

He said he was sorting through his feelings and thinking about the last couple of weeks we were together and the last 3 months we've been apart and the last 2 years before that... He said he kept thinking about that the most important thing he wants is for both of us to be happy and that he knows I need for him to be a better communicator about our R and that he just has such a hard time doing that. I explained to him that the issues we are having I think can be fixed if we are just willing to do it. I told him that I think we tried to push things too fast when he came home and that it would probably be best if we stepped back, didn't sleep in the same bed, just worked on being friends and reconnecting for a while, then worked towards solving these issues and that I knew he was going through turmoil of potentially leaving someone else that he has grown to really care about and that we should probably both take some down time to just heal before feeling pressured to get all of these things solved right away. I asked him what he thought about that, and I think he said that that might be better than what we did, or something to that effect. He went out with some friends tonight, which I know will be good for him. I asked him if he was coming home tonight, and he said he didn't know (which means "no"). I also asked him if we are "okay." He told me yes earlier today and then later that he didn't know... Ugh.

At this point, my gut tells me that he's checked out on our marriage. However, we have a very successful business that we've built together, and we are the only ones in it. We are fabulous business partners. He has expressed an interest in not being romantically involved anymore but staying business partners. To be honest, that makes me want to throw up. While I honestly want him to be happy, it makes my gut hurt to think about giving my all to help him be successful and then have him share that success with someone else, potentially someone else who contributed to breaking up our R. How could he ever expect me to do that and be okay with it? How could I possibly work side by side with him still and know he is involved with someone else and that my successes are now being shared with her? I know he doesn't think of it that way, but I do. I guess that's selfish maybe for me to think that way, or maybe it's a way for me to somehow manipulate him to stay with me, by telling him that I won't remain in business with him if he doesn't stay with me romantically as well. My emotions are so mixed up right now that I don't know what to think. I just know that it infuriates me to be working so hard every day to help us be successful and know that he has potentially "given up on us" but still expects me to contribute to his success. Is it wrong for me to feel that way? Am I out of line? Am I just being manipulative? I just don't think I could ever stomach lifting him up when I know how he has hurt me and that he "gave up" on us. While I want him to be happy, do I have to necessarily contribute to that happiness? If he doesn't want to contribute to our romantic relationship, why should I want to contribute to our business relationship? It feels like that he wants his cake and to eat it, too - that he wants "her" on the side for his personal R and me on the other side to boost our business relationship, and that makes me sick to my stomach. I don't want to help someone be successful who has hurt me so much. I know I hurt him, too, and I'm so sorry for that, but I want to make it better, and he doesn't. Oh, I don't know... Please tell me what you think from the outside looking in. My emotions are so over the board right now...

I'm also getting tired of him being so "mean" to me. He's so distant and cold. As I said, I think that just makes it easier on him. But it's tearing me apart. And I don't know what to do about it. I've talked to him about it, but it hasn't changed. We have to communicate due to our business, and when we talk about business, we're great together and he's nice to me. But the minute we discuss us, it goes downhill fast, and then it's like he turns into a different person. He's just mean-spirited, and that's not him at all. He is such a kind, wonderful man most of the time. I've only seen this side of him a few times, and it's been when we've been having problems. So, as I said, I can only gleen from that that that is how he deals with conflict - to push me away and to not let himself care outwardly.

Okay - this is getting too long, so I should close. Guess I had a lot to get out tonight. Thanks for listening. My potential plan for tomorrow is to not talk about the R at all if I can find the strength and just see how it goes. Maybe if we just don't talk about it for a while he won't be so worried about me bringing it up and will be more comfortable around me and kind to me. If I can somehow do that, maybe in time that will build into him feeling closer to me again. Right now, any time we talk about the R it just seems to push him away. At the same time, I have such a need to understand what's going on and where I stand. I'm angry that I'm just supposed to bottle that up inside until he's "ready." But it seems that that is what I must do in order to have a chance at making this work. But don't I have a right to know where he's staying at night? I feel like it's only fair that I understand what I'm dealing with. How can I know what to do when I can't see all the cards? How in the world can he expect me to just sit here and let him continue to do this? But I don't want to let go, but I also don't want to be hurt... As I said, I'm just not anywhere close to throwing in the towel, but at the same time, my work is slipping drastically because I can't focus, I'm miserable most of the time, I'm sad, lonely, feeling isolated, unloved, etc., etc. How much of that can a person take? I guess I'll find out...

Anyway, enough ranting and raving for tonight. As you said, I know I deserve to be treated better than this, and I know he knows that, too. He's on the fence right now and doesn't know what to do, and I'm stuck in the middle. And I want my marriage to work more than anything, but not like this. I guess I just need to go back to detaching and hardcore DB'ing again - it's the only chance I've got. I thought we were through that and that I went through these last 3 months of hell because he was going to get back in the game, and now he's gone again. I'm angry, confused, hurt, and mostly just sad. I meant it when I said I would love him forever... Any advice would be appreciated. And, believe me, I know I will be okay without him if it comes to that, but that's not what I want. I want to follow through on my commitment to our M...

[Just_Me]

Wow, talk about a mega-post! I'll try to rival it.

And so, it's more of the same. He isn't actually on the fence. He just doesn't want to make too big of waves. He's concerned if you get mad enough that the business could end up with you...or broken up and the gravy train ends. He's keeping a little lifeline also in case things with OW don't work out. Enough excuses for him!

What I need to do now is to figure out what to do to have the best chance of him recommitting. Suggestions?

I've tried. Hopefully someone else will chime in and give you advice you like. 2940831, every action, every time you ask, "are we okay", every time you accept unfeeling and uncaring actions, you are saying, "I'm desperate for you".

Do I want to give this everything I can and am to make it work? Completely. If that means going through this horrible pain with an outcome of reconciliation and happiness with this man,

Yes, you want the marriage to work. Most everyone on here does. And you are going about it all wrong. Where is your own life? What are you doing for you? Why do you have his footprints on your back from being used as a doormat. Your actions and lack of an independent life are very unattractive and very unlikely to reap any success for you. You know how you aren't supposed to believe anything your WAS says? That goes for the positives as well, especially with a guy. Your husband is feeding you what you want to hear, "I want to work on the marriage. I'm okay with us. I just need time, but we'll be together". Yada yada yada...bs..bs...bs

MY SUGGESTIONS: Since you want to be in the same house as him you need a plan. My plan for you, take it or leave it, is to GET A LIFE!! Today, tomorrow, the next day, start lining up things that you are going to do without him. Start reconnecting with friends. If you don't have any, find somewhere that you can find some (church group, whatever). Go out. Catch dinner with a friend, your neighbor. Go to a movie. Go to the bar. I don't care....just get out. Take classes at a local college, if there is one. If nothing else, go shopping for some new outfits. And for God's sake, be gone when he gets home.

The second part is to be friendly, but aloof. Do not sit down and talk to him. Don't go out of your way for him. Do not make him his favorite dinner, or frankly make one at all. Go eat with someone else. Take a moment to stop and smell the flowers. Flirt with the male clerk a bit. Look at yourself in the mirror and smile. Smile at someone you see on the street and get a smile back. Say hi to strangers. Pay for the coffee of the person behind you at starbucks and make his/her day...even if your H is with you. Be nutty. Be silly. Be giggly.

A big mistake you made was that you indicated that you wanted " I want to make each other happy" which is a fallacy. You can make you happy...he can't and it isn't his responsibility. And it isn't yours to make him happy. You can do nice things to brighten his day, but it's up to him to decide whether he's happy.

Do these things and one of two things will happen. A) he'll want to share this life with you or B)he won't, but you won't care because you'll be pleased with your life.

Tomorrow, post about what your plans are. Don't write one single word about what your H is doing. His life is uninteresting to us and frankly he's giving men a bad name and making me sick. I can't speak for everyone on this site, but I don't want to hear how he is/was a great guy because I don't buy it. He should prove it to you, and I don't think that's happening. I want to hear how you are a great lady and what you are doing to make your life better. Okay? Just for a day or two don't tell us about his messed up life?