Almost WAW - Do I need to reveal affair to H?

[*KS*Chick*]

How can the OM give you those exciting things from a distance?

[theoden]

Utterly,

Endorphins can be triggered by voice. Yes, even a phone call.

Understanding, encouagement, appreciation, respect -- they can happen on the phone.

How do I know? The OM in my wife's life can still grip my wife's heart and interest on the phone.

--Theoden

[mcojh]

NHN-

Let me ask you this. What caused you to "end" the relationship with the OP? Why did you decide to end it? My W is currently involved in an EA and is sure that the OM is the one and only for her.

I would appreciate your insight as to what ended your A. I tend to agree with Theo, you still hold the OM a special place in your heart, whether it be a memory or something else is up to you to decide.

[Rosy_Times]

how will you be able to go forward with your M and not feel guilt ALL THE TIME? I don't think its possible. I think you have to be clear with him and give him time to forgive you if he can.

[Flicka]

Cheers!!!

[NeedsHelpNow]

I love hearing your response Theoden - I'm glad you wrote back to me. What I have to offer is this...WHY do I have to be denied a strong connection with a human being that I truly feel something with, regardless of whether this person is platonic, romantic, a friend, etc.? If life is about making connections with people, and I can have many friends, acquaintances, family members, etc. that bring something to my life, and I to theirs, then why, in this one situation, are we forced to stop a real connection/relationship just because of the marriage institution? If I met this man in another setting, and we had never been involved romantically, I would be "allowed" by society to have a friendship with him but because of the way it happened, we are forced to keep it secret. I just find it very sad in life when there are so few people that we really truly connect with that I am supposed to just END this, because of another relationship that I started 25 years ago when I was a child.

I run the scenario that you suggest through my head...if I told my husband that I had had an affair, he would be devastated. Yes, I admit that. It would kill him. But he would not want to leave me, because he would not want to try to survive on his own - he is a very dependent person himself. He would tell me he wanted to work on our relationship, but the bottom line is that we are 2 completely different people on 2 different planets trying to maintain a life together for the kids - he is not capable of the kind of intimacy I desire (which is not sexual by the way). I get more "intimacy" from strangers than I do from my husband.

Your questions about ethics/religion, etc. are very good. I am torn with that everyday of my life. Before I met the OM, I was in a complete state of depression feeling like nothing mattered, that I did not matter...I was truly in a downward spiral and who knows where I would be now if I did not meet him. When you are with someone for 20 years who does nothing to make you feel attractive, important, special, etc. and all you see is that you are getting older, I felt cheated out of romance, intimacy, life. Then I meet someone who suddenly makes me feel alive, desirable, special, attractive, etc....yes, that is the classic affair case. But I went on to completely change myself...even knowing that the OM and I have no chance of being together...(we live in separate countries for one thing). However, he inspired me to workout, get in shape, feel younger, become more active, do more exciting things, get involved, meet people, etc., etc. - these are all things that my husband resents and cannot understand at all...I think he really wishes I were back on the couch sitting there rubbing his feet and getting fat and being comfortable.

I really do not want to live this way. Because I do know it is a lie. But I truly don't think things could ever change in my marriage because of how different we are. So I guess I am in some ways very much a coward because I would rather live a lie and have to go through each day putting on an act for the kids and my husband to keep the peace. Because I can't bear the thought of hurting him to this level. I really do not think he knows that things are this bad for me. I think he honestly thinks things are fine because I do not make waves, I never complain about anything, I just act like everything is fine. I don't think he knows the difference, because he is not missing anything since he has never had a need for intimacy, communication, etc. - he just views this as a relief that he doesn't have to deal with these things.

I have come to see my life in 2 phases - before I met the OM and after I met the OM. I think I am a better person from having met him - in 90% of my life...I stopped feeling sorry for myself, improved all of my activities, tried many new things I would never have done before, became more ambitious in my career, started doing a lot more things with my kids, etc. But on the other hand, it has made my marriage worse - because I refuse to be a lump on a log like my husband.

So...if I cut things off with the OM, who would there be to get tell when something exciting happens? If I go to a game where my child scores a basket and I see the excited look on her face, I tell the OM about it, and I get a real reaction...and there is a connection...if I were to have the same conversation with my husband, assuming he would even listen in the first place, I would get a "hmmmmm...." while he stares at the TV, barely glancing my way...

I don't know...I just continue to try to surround myself with other people...girl friends, co-workers, relatives, friends, etc....who I can have a connection with, because I can't get it at home with my own husband. And I just can't give up the relationship with the OM because it is something that just puts a smile on my face every time and I just can't see the harm in that...

The bottom line is that I think my husband and I should not be together, but I can't change that now. I am willing to keep living a lie for the kids at least for now, and that is just my baggage in life. But I also truly cannot see myself as some horrible, terrible person because there are many positive things I do everyday with my kids, my friends, in my career, with associations, etc. and even with my husband because I really think he would be lost on his own. So really the only one I really am hurting is myself. As for the OM, I don't think he is as in deep as me - he is the same as when I met him in the first place, just a very positive, upbeat, active, exciting person - I don't think this effects his daily life in a way that it hurts his relationship with his wife...I think they have a very nice relationship and I do know that he does a lot of the things with her that I wish for my own marriage (conversations, talking, discussing the future, talking about plans, etc.) And you probably would ask - why does he keep up a relationship with me? For him, I think it is about the friendship, just like you wouldn't want to end a friendship with someone that you happen to get along really well with...we just have a connection.

Oh well - thanks for letting me vent. Time for bed...

[Heywyre]

I have to agree with Theoden - you have never ended the A - whether it is EA or PA, it is still going on strong.

How can you really give your M a chance when the OM is still in the picture.

You say it is not an A but your H doesn't know about him. Well, those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing (as Dr. Phil would say). I am particularly fond of the guy but I have to say, that is one of his better lines. If your H doesn't know about the OM, you are having an A sweetheart - plain and simple!!

[Ophelia]

What you are saying is how I think my H felt in the time leading up to him leaving me and having an A.

All I can say is that I wish on a daily basis that we could turn back time and that this time H would come to me and tell me the problems he was having, instead of telling other people about them instead. I wish he had have let me know how he was feeling, so that I may have been able to do something to help fix things before it got too late. I feel that he robbed me, and our M of that chance.

I realise that you don't think you should have to spell it out. Your H should know that you're miserable, and if it's gonna take you beating him over the head with it, then that's just another sign that you're not meant to be together, because he doesn't already know. If he really cared, he'd have noticed, and would be doing something about it, right?

My H said that he must have been a good actor if I didn't know that things were that bad and he was that unhappy. I guess he figured that if I really did give a damn about him that I would have picked up on it. I eventually did pick up on it, only when he started spending less and less time at home, and then when he'd stop kissing me goodbye in the mornings when he left for work.

If you've been going out a lot more and spending less time around your H, chances are he is starting to realise that something isn't right. So why isn't the doing anything about it, you ask? If he really cared, he'd be making some sort of effort, right? Because he's scared. He's scared that if he asks the "Do you want to leave me?" question that you'll just up and leave. He doesn't really know what's going on, but he probably does know that there's something that's not right. He doesn't stand a chance unless you're honest with him about how you feel right now.

Yes, it'll probably kill him. When I finally found out how my H felt, it pretty much killed me. But I didn't find out until H was so unhappy that he felt things were beyond repair. He decided the fate of our M without my being involved. I suppose you could say the same in reverse as well. Neither party is blameless. I realise now things that I should have done more of, and if I'd done them, then maybe H wouldn't have ended up so unhappy. But at the time, I didn't realise. I just didn't know how he felt.

Your H's attitude may very well be getting worse because he doesn't want to rock the boat for fear of losing you. I know that when I was in that place right before the sh!t hit the fan and H left that I ended up with this sense of foreboding which all but paralysed me. I kinda knew that something big and bad was gonna come, but maybe if I stood still then time would as well and it'd never come to that.

Bottom line is that your H deserves to know how you feel about the state of your M, so that at least when he has all the info, he can make an informed decision about his actions and his attitude. Tell him you are unhappy. Even if you write it in a letter, tell him. Don't be mean about it. Don't put him down. Don't attack him. Just tell him how you feel. Tell him that you want to work on the M, that you want to try to make things better. Tell him that if you don't work on the M, that ultimately you may not be able to stay anymore. Just let him know what's going on with you. He deserves that.

And whether or not you choose to tell him about your A, (past or present, because yes it is currently an EA), if you want to give your M a chance, you need to cut off contact with OM. It's the only way you'll be able to focus completely on your M and your H and give them both the fighting chance they deserve.

[theoden]

NeedsHelpNow,

Wow...I really appreciate your honesty. Discussing this with you gives me more insight into the situation in my marriage. I can actually start to get how my wife feels in another woman's voice.

You are not a horrible, terrible person. There are many good things in your life. You want to live a full life, you want to be happy, you want intimacy. Your desires are legitimate. The issue is *how* you are going to meet those desires. Lying to your husband about an affair, that you are still involved in, is, in my opinion, a lack of integrity. What you are saying is -- it's OK to lie and have an affair in order to meet my needs.

I'm not saying, don't meet your needs. I'm saying, meet them, but do so honestly. The ethical shortcuts we take in order to keep the peace and meet our needs end up shaping us into people that we might not want to become.

And, if truth be told, we have been raised in a culture, where "meeting our needs" is what we live for.

I am proud of you for keeping the marriage together for the sake of your kids, you are giving them a great gift.

Now, regarding your husband...

He doesn't know how bad it is for you.

He doesn't know you really want to leave him.

He doesn't know about the affair.

Often, men won't attempt real changes until you "drop the bomb" and tell them you are very unhappy in this marriage. Often, revealing the affair is what's needed to open his eyes.

Also, I notice you have little or no hope for your marriage. You keep saying he can't change, he won't change, he's a loser, he's co-dependent, he's a couch potato, etc. You are painting a mental picture that, even if your husband did rise to the occasion, you would still reject him.

In addition remaining in touch with the OM will only serve as some comparison with your husband. It's more than a connection. When you speak with him, you are offering him your heart. Let's assume you had never slept with him -- you are still connectign with him in a way that is crowding out any intimacy with your husband. You can only really offer your heart to one man. We really aren't polygamous beings. Even in harems there is a pecking order and dreadful jealousy. Yo have opened a window to the OM and are building a brick wall to your husband.

Why not find good friendship/intimacy with your girlfriends?

The fact that it's a man means it's a romance.

The fact that you can't (and I stres can't) seem to let him go means you are in love with him and, it seems, addicted to him.

I think you owe your husband honesty.

Tell him the whole truth, how you feel, etc.

Then let him see YOU for who you really are -- a hurt woman who is so emotionally dry that has resorted to lying and sdultery to fill her needs.

Maybe he can still love that woman. And wouldn't that be a powerful love?

Maybe, in an honest way, you can both change. You might surprise youself.

I think, honesly, you haven't given your husband the chance to change because you haven't told him the truth.

--Theoden

[theoden]

One more thing.

You mentioned that your life is 90% better after you met the OM.

Looks like you changed. Do you think anyone, even you, would have thought that such a dramatic change would happen to you?

So..why can't your husband change?

Many of us who are "Divorce Busting" needed the raw honesty (even the truth of an affair) from our spouses in order to take stock of our lives. We do something called, "Getting a Life". We try new things, we excercize, we take up hobbies, we become more proactive, we find our mission in life. We begin to open our hearts, we start to listen. Yes, the pain is incredbile. I have had the worst year in my life. The shock sent me into a depression and acute anxiety. But, truth be told, I am not sleepwalking through life anymore. I'm awake and working on myself. I'm free from depression, I'm buoyant, I'm fun and I'm really on a path to wholeness. This might not have happened if not for my wife's declaration of her feelings.

The only problem is that by the time most people "drop the bomb" on their spouses, they are so hardened inside that even when the spouse starts to change, they are not willing to change their mind about leaving.

You are not planning on leaving. So....tell him the truth, he might surprise you.

My only concern, really, is that even if your husband changes, you will keep in contact with the OM and eventually end your marriage.

Of course, maybe the OM will leave his wife for you. And then, what if, in a couple of years, another OM makes you feel more intimate than OM #1? Do you keep trading up?

So...if you don't think marriage makes much sense, I see you point. Just trade up.

--Theoden

Tell him the truth and give him a chance.