BF, I don't know what my test. levels are. I don't go back to see my urologist for three months. Call the office and ask for the results. Better, go to the office and get the results. Ask what some of the norms are.
I do it. Some doctore/nurses are slow about giving me my results but they all give my results. Sometimes I have to go to the internet to compare my results to some of the norms posted.
I have only had to do this two times. The other times the head nurse calls me a day or two after I see the doctor.
I think we have read what you wrote quite thoroughly. Perhaps you haven’t read your own writing very well.
As far as an attitude, you're correct, I have one. I will not eat S**T from anyone that tells me or implies that I have not attempted to save my marriage or that I have not been a man in my marriage or in this situation.
I doubt you will eat shit from your wife either, but she is supposed to eat yours, right? After all, you’re ENTITLED to you anger, aren’t you. That bad woman MADE you be less than what you think you should be, she MADE you feel bad about not having sex with her, she MADE you stay behind in your career while hers took off. Poor thing.
I just wonder if they'd be so quick to take those actions with me face to face.
Damn right I would.
All of this is fruitless and childish. I didn't come here to defend myself. I have always thought that if one did not have something productive to say, one should keep his/her mouth shut. I came here for help, not to get bogged down in this foolishnes.
I don’t think you would recognize a helpful statement if it hit you upside the head. The only “helpful” statement that will get through to you is that you are right and your wife is wrong. Was that helpful?
This "be a man" crap is so far removed from me that it's laughable. I don't think anyone that has ever known me, including my wife, would ever place me in the "not a man" category, in any classification of the phrase. I'm hearing that I'm angry and that I'm envious of my wife's career and that I'm not a leader and I'm not taking any responsibility for my marital situation, and this and that. I'm not sure if some of these "men" have read what I've written or if they have, I'm not sure they can comprehend what I've written.
I think we all comprehend quite well what you’ve written. The above paragraph summarizes it pretty well. Show me where you’ve written anything to the contrary.
Statement I love my wife. I want to spend the rest of my days with this woman. I have accepted that this may not be possible. I have accepted that I am but one partner in my marriage, and, thereby, cannot stop my spouse from leaving (nor would I want to stop her if that is what she wants). I cannot change another person; I can only change and take care of myself. Contradiction My wife in her current state has no redeeming qualities. I am not attracted to her as she is today (when I say today I'm talking about over the years when she basically began dominating the marriage).
It's not a matter of rolling up my sleves and going to work, I have no problem with that, but I'm just too damn proud to do all of the work to save my marriage for a spouse that seems like she couldn't care less about me or us.
Since when does pride trump love for sake of marriage? You say your son will be devastated by news of the divorce, but that must not bother you too much since you place your pride above him.
Statement All she could talk about was our past, the bad parts of our past. I heard the seven year no sex thing until I was blue in the face. I have a real problem with people that let their past control their future. I feel pity for anyone in that place. Yes, we should learn from our past, but to mire your future in the past is a terrible waste. I must say that I was shocked when my wife was only able to talk about our last seven years together. I never once thought that a person as intelligent as my wife would mire her future in her past. Contradiction Believe me brother, she is well aware of my feelings regarding this respect issue. She has been told by me in no uncertain terms that we will NOT go back to the relationship that we've had for the last several years. Those days are over, period. She wants to be a bit*h, I have no problem with that, but she'll be a bit*h with with a new man.
People seem to think that my poor wife hasn't had a husband that wanted her in seven years--that street runs both ways, for seven years I haven't had a wife that wanted me.
Sound to me like you’re just as mired in the past as she is. That would make sense since you two are probably mirror images of one another.
Statement My friend, I don't agree with your view of earning respect. You give another person respect until they do something to warrant no longer being respected. Contradiction My wife also lost all respect for me several years ago (women, listen to me--don't ever do that with a man), and this became a serious problem for me. Her career advanced while mine did not; to be honest, I think at some point my wife began thinking that she was above me. Her current salary is four times what mine is.
The contradiction in this is that you could not keep up with her career-wise and your lack of success was not enough for her to warrant continuing to give you respect. That has more to do with you than with her.
Statement This business about getting a divorce because you're unhappy or you're no longer in love, blah, blah, blah is BS. Boo fking hoo. I hate that anyone is not happy in their marriage or that anyone is no longer "in love" with their spouse, but you know what--grow up, be an adult and stop thinking of only yourself. You're not happy then that is you responsibility. Contradiction I have tried everthing I know of to try to get my spouse engaged in putting our marriage back together. I have been rebuffed on all attempts. All I need is a little willingness and openness on her part to work on our marriage. If that happened, I'd be 100% involved in anything to restore our marriage.
I doubt you see this as a contradiction since you stated there might be something else you could learn from this board, but the one most important thing that you could learn, you do not want to hear.
Statement My wife knows that I'd never cheat on her. She took advantage of my commitment, trust, loyalty, etc. and she did whatever she wanted to do. Basically, she knew there'd be no dire consequences for her actions, so why worry about stomping me. I have a very, very, very real problem with anyone with this type of attitude. You don't take something that's good and sincere in a world full of sh*t and corrupt it for power. If there's one thing in all of this that would make me turn my back on her and file papers, it's her lack of maturity and integrity regarding our relationship. This is not my problem; this is her problem. Contradiction My wife knows that I will never beg her to stay, and she knows that at some point I might become unwilling to work on our marriage. I have not told her that, but my wife knows me. She knows that when I get my fill of something, I can walk away. I try until I'm satisfied that I can possibly do nothing else, then I walk away.
You state she has a “lack of maturity and integrity regarding [y]our relationship” and that would “make” you turn your back on her and file. But since you haven’t walked yet, are you saying this is not such a big deal, or are you rethinking this statement:
Let's face it, a WAS is a coward--you plan something for a long time without even trying to work things out with your partner then you just drop the bomb one day out of the blue.
Or is it a case that if she walks, she is a coward, but if you walk, you aren’t?
Statement So, I feel that I've done my share to rectify our marital problems. As stated earlier in this post, I will not beg anyone to be with me or stay with me. I will not beg someone to meet me half way. If they have no desire to work with me on problems, so be it. Contradiction She says that she is "no longer in love with me" and now has "no desire to have a sexual relationship with me". "Something in her, her love and desire for me, has died, and that can never be recovered."
When she went to the counselor all she talked about was divorce.
It seems like she is making it pretty clear. So why are you here?
I feel sorry for anyone that is selfish enough or has so little self-esteem that they would stay in a relationship with a partner that doesn't want to be in the relationship. I would tell that person to examine his/her life closely.
Maybe that is what she is doing?
As I move away from the weak person that I had became, and the me that I used to be emerges, I question my entire motivation for attempting a reconsiliation. My hope is that she'll see the changes that I'm making and it'll motivater her to change.
Now explain to me one more time what it is that you did to change? You said Well, I found a respected marriage counselor in our area and setup all of the visits to our marriage counselor, when she no longer wanted to go to the counselor I continued to go.
So you went for two whole months? What came of those two months? Besides trying to get the counselor to agree that you are right and your W is wrong, what did YOU do to change into a more attractive person to your W? Do you really think moving away from the weak person you were by becoming angry and obnoxious is the kind of change your wife was eagerly awaiting?
Have you even bothered to ask her what she wants to see in you, or are you scared of what you might hear?
Are you a licensed, practicing divorce attorney in the state of Mississippi? Do you have a through understanding of the divorce process and statutes in the state of Mississippi? Have I hired you as my legal counsel? When you meet these qualifications, I'll seek your advice on legal matters.
No, I work in treasury/finance. But I’m well aware of the laws in Texas and the various states do not differ much. Your lawyer might tell you what you want to hear, based on the one-sided story you tell him/her. I would guess your wife has a totally different story for her lawyer.
Man, you are so lost when it comes to me. Angry, you're right, but do you think that I'd let my anger get in the way of my working on my marriage?
You don't know me guy and I understand that, but man you're jumping into left field on your assumptions. Do you think I go to my wife angrily, and try to solve problems?
How can your anger not get in the way? You said your wife wasn’t stupid. I’m sure she knows your anger quite well. IMO, the proof is in the fact that she does not want to cooperate with you any longer. If you were a sweet-heart, she would jump at the chance to fix the marriage.
Do I really sound to you that I'm an immature chest thumping moron that doesn't know how to behave or get the job done?
Do you want me to answer that?
I hope you're not a shrink because your patients would be SOL with your insight.
Nope, and I’ve got a lot more insight than you realize. You just can’t see past your anger.
I think I posted something earlier about people making assumptions. Do you really think that I need someone like you, or anyone here, to justfy or validate my feelings?
No, but I do think you need your wife to justify your feelings. But she just won’t give it, will she? I wonder why? Let’s see, what was your response to something like this?... oh yeah “Boo fking hoo.”
You want some constructive comments? You’re not so hard to read abyss. You story is not much different from mine, except for the fact that my wife was a SAHM until recently. Your wife sounds powerful and assertive. So is mine. Your wife has to be in order to succeed so well in the workplace. That can make a woman seem cold and uncaring, though that is not necessarily the case. I bet she also touts a lot of feminist-style manifesto.
You, on the other hand, say you were a doormat. Now you are becoming the person you used to be. I doubt that is true. You were probably more passive when you were younger too, but because you were not in a committed relationship you did not have to enforce your boundaries or get engaged in a power struggle. At that time, if you didn’t get along with someone, you just didn’t see them anymore.
Marriage changes all of that, doesn’t it? So your wife had an innately stronger personality than you, and you held to more romantic beliefs of what is right and wrong, good and bad, polite and impolite (probably imposed on you by shaming parents). You tried to be the chivalrous gentleman and she took advantage of it, right? Now you’ve out up with it long enough and you’ve exploded, ready to turn the tables and re-assert your manhood.
Let me know if I’m too far off base with this, but if not, you are going to have to accept the fact that your passivity was your responsibility, though not necessarily your fault. Your wife’s assertiveness was also her responsibility, but not necessarily her fault. Have you ever stopped to wonder how and why the two of you ever became attracted in the first place? I’ll stop here. Let me know if you want to continue or not, but I will tell you one thing, you have a LOT to learn.
I have just read your thread all the way through. You are in pain and you are angry. You are lashing out at those who are trying to help.
We've all been there. Some of us have been around here for 3 or 4 years and some have made tremendous progress. Pretty much everyone that has pitched in a comment on this thread is an old hand, very experienced and they DO know what they are talking about.
There is much to learn here if you're willing to listen. And despite your belligerent comments the people here are STILL willing to help you out. This help will be painful, it will hurt and you will react often with anger. When you feel that anger look inside yourself and ask yourself why. Read back over what you have posted/what they have posted. Let it sit for a while before you respond.
Cobra in particular can handle whatever crap you throw at him, can you handle what he throws at you? And I don't mean can you fight back.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
BF, I don't know what my test. levels are. I don't go back to see my urologist for three months.
I would hazard a guess that your testosterone levels are much higher than they have been in the recent past. Even though your situation sucks and could account for account for your emotions, I think that higher T levels may be contributing to your current feelings of anger/agression.
Cobra use to have a lot... A LOT of anger towards his wife, when he first started posting here. He did as you, tried to eat a lot of crap sandwiches for a lot of years to keep the peace. Im not sure why he is baiting you like that, but stick around. you cant do it on your own.
I dont expect you to 'control' your new chemical cocktail, anymore then I expect a woman to control her emotions on those special days of the month, but you need to be aware of it and take care of your health even if that means pestering your Dr.
You dont have to let others provoke you to showing it though. Save it for exercise and paper. Feel free to wax your irritation at me..:) better yet, Start getting some regular heavy duty exercise. Buy a heavy bag and beat and sweat your frustrations out on the bag, or something similar.
You cannot allow anger and uncontrolled spitefullness to be a part of your interactions with your W, if you want to work on things. You can be severely displeased, and show emotional forcefullness.
You swung the pendulum too far one way, and now your at the other end. Hold onto yourself and get centered. You can do it.
Sorry. I was mostly responding to A's tone about "career women". He just spun off of your post in a different direction than the point you were making. I'm a little sensitive about it perhaps.
A,
The point I have often made to Cobra and I will make to you now is that the way we handle others (like people on this BB) can provide valuable clues about where we might be missing the boat with our S. Cobra is exactly the person you should relate best to because, like you, he doensn't feel a great deal of "love" for his W, he isn't looking for a return to an "ideal" time in their R, he is looking at forging something new altogether. A hard job. If that is what you want to do then you will have to identify some motivation greater than not wanting to share custody.
I have been through a D. I don't recommend it if you can avoid it. My perscription-addicted, ex-H who was either unemployed or employed in a series of low-pay, dead end jobs despite being the proud owner of an MD got JOINT LEGAL CUSTODY. The children primarily reside with me. He has standard visitation. In this state (MD)this is considered the normal custody arrangement. The children would have to be in imminent danger for him to have curtailed or supervised custody/visitation. It is only by his agreement that I was given "primary" residential status (he was trying to get himself together, he still is). He had been through rehab and was clean at the time of the D and if he had chosen to fight would have gotten 1/2 time custody. This is the "modern" way of divorce. Most states are similar. It is something to be aware of if you end up going that way.
A - if you don't see redeeming qualites in your W. Where will your motivation come from? If you can't let go of your own anger and work toward the future where will your motivation come from? It is ok to be mad. It is ok not to accept garbage from people. Just be careful that you don't automatically dicount things that people say because you don't like the way they said it. Develop ways to keep the messanger alive while you evaluate the message. Even if you do D your W you will have to communicate with her. You are (in effect)stuck with one another for the long haul regardless.
I've just read your posts all the way through and something was sreaming out at me as regards the no sex time frame. Namely you haven't had sex for 7 yrs and your son is 7 yrs old. Ever consider your wife may have had post natal depression when son was born?
Maybe at that time she while in a high earning job she resented having to go out to work to earn the big money? Maybe she resented that you wern't able to provide for the family the way she would have liked and her resentments made you seem unattractive to her? Lots of maybes but very real possibilities. Maybe if she had undiagnosed post natal depression she couldn't help how she felt and maybe your resentments of her life outside the home showed too. It comes across from your posts whether you like it or not that you did resent her success or rather you didn't like your lack of success and you seem to blame her for pretty much everything. Classic mlc behaviour from you maybe the same from your wife. If you want your M to work or rather if you want to work at your M your attitude has to change big time.
I totally understand that it is soul destroying to always be the one making the first move and eventually to switch off and not try. Been there done that got the t. shirt but it doesn't sound like she was rejecting you when you did make a move unlike myself and others on this board.
Listen to advice given here so much is good and the best advice is change you and don't try to change her. Listen calmly when she complains about the past and don't do the classic but you did this too. Date nights are good for reconnecting plus you will always be joint parents of your kids so you will have to get along in future even if your wife doesn't change her mind about wanting a divorce. You do not own your wifes future if you D you will have no say in who she sees or what she does no control over her actions so accept that you can't control her actions now either only your own.
Stay calm anger is so destructive and you sound like a volcano ready to erupt. Good luck no matter what happens next!
