I see this objectively too, I totally see my change in attitude. It's because he's home. When he's gone, I have peace and all the hope in the world. As soon as he comes home, my hope goes out the window. Why do you suppose that is??????
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
That's where I was talking about 'life' invading again, honey. You are one foot in, one foot out again. You have to get a grip on your run away thoughts.
There was no mistaking his attitude Friday night....he wanted to try. But his attitude seems to have changed, not a complete 180, but definitely changed...the affection isn't as much...the connection has been way dimmer from the moment we woke up Saturday morning. That was part of why I was so relieved he was gone. What is going on? It's not just 'life', kwim?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
He makes it so clear 100% of the time that his priority is the kids. I've never seen a person shower their kids with so much affection and attention as my H does with ours. Never, ever. He tells them they're beautiful, handsome, the best kids ever, and on and on and on. He's constantly touching them, hugging or cuddling, playing or showering with compliments. I would have thought H might be looking forward to seeing me after spending the weekend with the kids, but no. He laid down and he and S6 started building Legos, this huge set that has over 800 pcs. At one point, he sang a song something about loving S6 and D4, he does that all the time....I love my Tucker, I love my Ellie. I don't fit into the picture, I just don't. I don't want to compete with my kids for my husband's attention, that's just sick. That was the main difference between Friday and Sunday. Friday, he had attention, affection and a desire to be with ME, not just to be with the kids or the 'family'. Then it went away as fast as it came.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Take heart honey. You will be awkward with each other. You will both want to fall back into self protective mode. You each have a long way to go.
I DO know someone like your last post. My H. My H is absolutely in love with the children - even the ones that aren't his. He exchanges nightly 15 minute back rubs with DS15 while watching tv. I am not included. Sometimes when his kid orientation runs amuck I call him on it. Gently. It isn't a big discussion but rather a small statement. "Uummm, H, when you walked in and picked up DD2 because she was crying due to being in trouble with me, it was inappropriate." "Uummm, H, when I was sitting alone on a three person couch and you crossed the room to sit with DD9 after having been on a business trip for three day, it hurt my feelings." He has gotten better.
I completley understand how you can feel excluded from the intensity of the love that you H and has for the kids and vice versa. I have many times felt that my connection with H is more "disposable" to him. Just think of it as the male version of what a lot of guys complain about in their W's. As you see where things go you can start inserting yourself into the picture in appropriate ways. "Schooch over D or S, I am going to sit by Daddy now."
Quote: ------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, I don't want to be discouraged. But I am. And Nops, I really would like your objective opinion on the fact that I'm still on the couch. Perhpas it's to be expected as we've only discussed making things different, we haven't really ironed that out yet.
But I just know me, I can feel it coming. If I sell that truck, take that big of a loss and then have to spend the night on the couch.....it's gonna bubble over -------------------------------------------------------
Write off the truck and forget about it forever. It is something you should have done a long time ago. Don't let it become a focus, it will just trip you up.
Your hubby thinks you can't decide which way you want to go. He is not going to have a sudden epiphany and declare to the world "MY WIFE IS IN THE MARRIAGE!!".
We all believe that he sucks at the relationship if that makes you feel better.
Like I posted to you earlier, expect some bumps. I also said that you are ultimately the one that has to decide when enough is enough.
Having said that again, I think you should stop chomping at the bit. Erase it from your character. Let hubby see you sans the anger and frustration.
The only way to get him to negotiate is if it is an appealing offer. You have to sell it to him. Your day for him to take up his end of the deal happens later. The only way that is going to happen is if you calm down, give him a chance to process what has happened, and keep the communication up.
Getting mad right now will only set you back. As the two of you continue to share your perceptions of the marriage as you have done, you can bring up your desires for the new relationship.
Negotiation takes time and patience. It is not an instant fix.
If hubby is home tonight, I think you should gently but merrily run him off the couch to make it up to sleep on. Do the unexpected, and make it positive. Come up with your own ideas. Make the sleeping arrangements an issue, but do it by positive example. Go into the bedroom and turn down the covers for him. Leave a short sweet note on the pillow, then head off to the couch.
Oh, and trading the truck right away is a good idea. That kills it as an ongoing issue.
Let me know what you think.
-NOPkins-
Last edited by NOPkins; 02/26/0707:05 PM.
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I don't know what I think. I think I'm right back where I started. I thought I made a decision on which way to go, I filed and now suddenly I've been sucked back into the vortex of this M....this SAME marriage! How long are we talking? Honestly. I know you're gonna say that only I can answer that, but I need somebody to tell me how fking long I need to do this. I feel like I need to go back to being 'happy' about sleeping on the couch, 'happy' that I don't get a say in things I want to have a say in because if I try the situation will escalate and anger will ensue which will be detrimental to my cause. I just need to live one big lie for an indefinite period of time....smile when I don't want to smile, have sex when I don't want to have sex, back down on parenting issues when I don't want to back down.....what happened to the 'new relationship'? I feel like I've been duped. When I was talking about inviting him into a new relationship and giving him time to decide, I meant within the next month or so. Not two more years.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Quote: -------------------------------------------------------- I know you're gonna say that only I can answer that, but I need somebody to tell me how fking long I need to do this. --------------------------------------------------------
I am sorry that you feel duped.
The deal is simple. You have filed, therefore you are in control. Since you are in control, you determine what you will invest in the remaining relationship.
You can't force him to accept your offer, on your time scale, for a new relationship. You can only invite him. You can make the offer one-time-only, or you can stretch it out. So as much as you don't want to, you have to decide what you can tolerate.
I will suggest what I think you should do. I think you should give him a month while you communicate and give it your best shot. At the end of the month. Tell him what you did and that he rejected your offer and that you will now proceed with the divorce regardless of objections. Again, that is a suggestion only.
You have a workable plan, if you will follow it. It is up to you as to the duration.
Let me know what you are going to do.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Hi Heather You situation is bringing back some memories for me. I remember it being quite awkward when H moved back home. So don't let that phase you. But you are correct (I think) that the arrangements should be different now. This is the start of a New relationship, not the Old. I specifically remember my H asking me "Do you want me to sleep on the couch?" when we first reconciled. It seemed weird to me because I expected him in my bed (and that's where he slept). But we Communicated. I don't see you and your H doing that at all (other than the emails). You need to get that hashed out ASAP before you both slip back into old habits. I like Nops one month plan but I think I'd step it up even quicker. Not that you will have everything worked out by any means but you need to start a good foundation: commmunication, living arangements, etc. If you are unhappy with the bed arangements YOU need to speak up. Don't expect him to do it. I can tell you are losing it and I don't blame you but you need to establish some boudaries here and stick with it. I sort of get the sense the two of you have never really been vulnerable with each other but you need to start. Tell him how you feel about sleeping separate and do it Nicely. No accusations, yelling, etc. But you need to do it.
Personally I am a little uneasy about Nop’s recommendation. Assuming that both you and your H were honest in your recent talks, the problem, like LFL says, is one of communication, plus retraining past programmed responses. That will take a long time to overcome and putting a one month deadline on it seems to be asking for trouble.
But I do understand what you want. Why does there have to be only one way to accomplish that? If he is not ready to have you sleep in the same bed, isn’t there some other way to get your pain across to him? Threatening him did some seem to evoke much empathy, did it?
I would think about ways that you can trigger the “protector” response in him. Think about what tugs at your heart. You don’t feel much sympathy for someone beating on another to acknowledge their pain, at least not as much as envisioning a hurt, crying child. IMO, for a man there is nothing more powerful to trigger his compassion than seeing his loved one hurt and crying. That includes his woman and his kids.
Do you see why your ultimatums have all failed? You have been challenging him and evoking his battle response, not his compassion response. I think this will be hard for you to do, just as it is hard for you to accept his compassion once you get it. I think you should touch base very closely with Corri on this. Rediscover your softness. Learn to set the bait as the hunted rather than the hunter. Learn to entice and inspire.
I see this objectively too, I totally see my change in attitude. It's because he's home. When he's gone, I have peace and all the hope in the world. As soon as he comes home, my hope goes out the window. Why do you suppose that is??????
When he is not there are you wondering whether he will ever validate your needs, or do you just focus on the moment and non-relationship things? Is there a dialogue going on in your head?
When he is there, are you focusing and hoping that he will validate you, and then do you get angry when he doesn’t? What is the dialogue in your head at that time? How is that dialogue different from the other one? Who controls that dialogue?
I think this is where the rubber meats the road with all the learning you have gained here. It is one thing to talk about overcoming enmeshment, it is another to do it. I think you are wanting to jump back into the old safety of your codependency too soon. You yourself said this was to be a new relationship. Why should you find comfort in the same old destructive ways of the past? The new relationship will require that you hold onto yourself in a new way, even if you two can recover to the early, happy days of your relationship.
I have written of the ideal to be “one.” Unfortunately for people like you and I, that is a fantasy that we will not likely ever be able to live up to. So be radically honest with yourself first but don’t beat yourself up over it. The new reality is accepting the unhealthiness of what you were modeled in order to survive and letting go of old fantasies. Remember, the larger the gap between expectations and reality, the larger the potential disappointment. You can only change reality so much, but you can change your expectations a lot, if you want to.
Your H gave you the long term commitment you wanted, right? He has no plans to leave. He said you are secure in his future. So maybe you can try to recognize the anxiety you feel as the “poison” of your old ways and not as an indication that he doesn’t love you or that he wants to exclude you. Those two have no correlation to each other in the new relationship, only in the old. It is not easy to overcome our FOO conditioning. I also fight this everyday.
(other than the emails).