Crazy Stud on Studs

[whatisis]

Muddle, I just picked up a new book myself. I have to put it down after every few pages cuz I keep saying "that's me" or "that's her" or "that's us"! It's friekin me out a bit. It's called "How To Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" (sounds good so far, doesn't it) by Patricia love and steven stosny, it has the Michelle seal of approval! When I browsed through it, it seemed like every page I turned to had something I could identify with. One of the ideas it puts forward is that we respond to shame and fear. Woman get closer by showing vulnerability and men are afraid of it. If my W is vulnerable, scared and anxious then I'm not doing my job! I don't like that so I correct her, get angry at her and avoid hearing about it. We feel we are responsible for her anguish because we are supposed to be the protectors and, obviously, we are doing a piss poor job! This rings really loudly in my head re your R. W is always busy shaming you, probably without even realizing it. I can relate to all this stuff myself. Even in small example in the book, W says she feels cold in the house and H answers "how can you feel cold, it's 70 degrees!" He feels he is being a lousy protector, she isn't supposed to be cold if he's doing his job. It's weird cuz I do that all the time with W, she says "it's cold in here" and I say "I don'f feel cold." Why? Somehow, as the book says, I feel it is my responsibility to make sure she isn't cold, yet I've failed! I often get irritated at her remarks which seem blown out of proportion. Why? Because I feel inadequate if she has complaints cuz somehow I was supposed to make her feel happy, secure and protected. That's why I'm so irritated when she does that, I've failed her. That's not her saying so, that's me! The authors feel that males and females must become more aware of how these remarks are interpreted by the other in relation to fear and shame. Anyway, that's in the first 20 pages. I'm going in, if I'm not back soon come in after me, Muddle.
You might find this an interesting read.

[MuddleThrough]

Thanks for the book suggestion. It sounds interesting.

Today I find myself near the bottom of the emotional RC. I'm feeling hopeless. I got some insight into my W's perspective on me, and it really makes me sick. She sees me as crazy, says that she's never been happy with me and that she thinks I am nuts for thinking we can ever work. I guess none of this stuff is news to me, but after a year I thought I'd be farther up this mountain. I guess my perspective hasn't changed a whole lot, and neither has my W's.

I'm frustrated because while I respect my W and know she's smart, I see her as being so wrong. I find myself focusing on her. I see that she's pointing at her unhappiness as proof that the marriage wasn't/isn't working rather than working on becoming happy and seeing whether there is a positive response in marriage. If we end the marriage because of her misery, I have no doubt that she'll play this out again. The next relationship she's in will "make her miserable" and she'll likely not have someone as committed to making things work as I am. So my son will see his FOO disolved and then have to deal with his mother's failing relationships over and over.

It doesn't help me much to think about the consequences of her actions. It doesn't help me to predict negative outcomes for her. I want her to have a great life, regardless of whether I'm in it. I'm being really selfrighteous in stating that I know the truth and she's in the wrong so cosmic justice will make sure she pays for being wrong, and my son will suffer on top of it. Thinking like this makes me feel so trapped in the situation. I know it's best for my son to have his parents together, but seeing this really disfunctional relationship they have isn't really a good thing. Again, I find myself blaming this on her. I'm trying to do everything I can to make our interactions functional. I'm trying to be constructive. I think I should just stop. I should stop treating her like I think she's special. I should just treat her with the courtesy I would give a stranger and no more. Stop trying to do right.

She doesn't want things to work right now, so by trying I'm invalidating her. I'm giving her reason to sabotage our relations. If I step away, I wonder if she'll step towards me again after all that's happened. I need to do this again. I need to back away and start preparing a life without her in it. I've been beating myself up over this for too long. I've tried so many different approaches to do what I could to change things, and they haven't changed. I'm stuck. I don't want to be trapped anymore. I am keeping myself here, a victim of my values and fears. I don't want to destroy my family, yet it's already been shattered and is held together in a paper bag. And there's water dripping on the bag. We could put things back together, use the shards to rebuild something strong and wonderful before the bag disintegrates or we could put two pieces together and see that they don't work together until the bag tears and shards are spread everywhere.

I have been working to put my shards back together in a more healthy way, sometimes rebreaking them so they fit better. Maybe I should just break out of the bag now so I'm at least relatively whole. So I can move forward with my life and pursue my goals and dreams proactively rather than sitting here in limbo until either my W divorces me or decides she does want to work things out. At this point I don't really see the latter happening. My hope is not strong at the moment and my fears are rising.

[benwa]

Whatever you lose in life remember you still have you, and you have your son.

[jamespb75]

I'm sorry Muddle, I feel the same way. My sitch got bad yesterday and I am feeling the same way. We need to hang tough, remember the good days instead of the bad. When we have a good time it shows promise, and you have to way the good heavier than the bad. It's easy to have a bad day, It actually takes no effort at all. Other people can make you have a bad day. IT takes strength and effort to have a good day, and if there are good days then an effort is being made, wether it's you or her, there is still an effort. Stay strong, and keep fighting. All of us know how hard it is, except for the ones who want a divorce, They feel that it shouldn't be hard to reconcile, because it wasn't hard to fall in love the first time. But any one knows that working on something takes a lot of effort, and time. So keep your head up. I am.

[jamespb75]

If your out there, I need help, I wrote on both threads. THanks

[whatisis]

Sometimes we try too damn hard, Muddle. We burn ourselves out and then feel resentful about it. Take a breather, treat her like you would a stranger for a while and see what happens. You can always go back to seeing her as someone special. It's not like she's going anywhere! I feel your frustration and really do know what it feels like to live what you are describing. Live for Muddle for a bit, it might help.

[jamespb75]

Hey man, are you O.K., you don't seem like yourself lately? Just checking in on ya. Haven't heard much from ya lately. You take care.

[MuddleThrough]

Yeah, I'm ok. Saturday marked 5 years of marriage for me - not exactly a celebration. We had a drink together. I put some candy around the house for her to find. She seemed to enjoy that, but everything seems tinged with negativity. I went out for a nice bike ride on Saturday. The bike path was covered in a sheet of ice (studded tires are amazing) so I got the whole path to myself. I did about 8 miles on it, alone with my thoughts, enjoying the wonders of nature. Loving life.

Whatis, if you're lurking, I read "Why Can't You Read My Mind" and I thought it was great. It really cuts to the chase that people perceive things that are different than reality, and if these judgments are internalized and become deeply ingrained beliefs, the relationship is VERY different for the two participants. My W routinely does have all 9 of the toxic thoughts mentioned in the book! If you've ever read Ellis' work ("A Guide to Rational Living" is a good one) you'll see that he refers to the "toxic thoughts" as irrational beliefs, or neurotic beliefs. It's really frustrating that the way my W thinks about life and also our relationship are not things that I can impact. Therefore I really have no control over the fate of the relationship. Right now she believes her labels to be true, she believes that her predictions are coming true, she believes in her black and white views, she believes that I should know how to act, I should know her better, she blames me for not knowing, and for all the wrong that has happened in the relationship, etc, etc, etc. I am going to ask her if she'll read the book and let me know her thoughts on it, but I don't have high hopes. I think she'll see it as me blaming her for the downfall of the relationship rather than an attempt to share something that has been useful and thought provoking for me. I'm not going to let that fear stop me from suggesting it, but it's still there.

[jamespb75]

I am so glad your wrote today. I was getting worried my friend. I just wanted you to know that you have made a major change in my life and I can't express how much it means to me.

I wish I had some advice for you, but it would be the student telling the master how to teach his class. The only thing I can see is that you are doing the things you told me not to do. That is have a positive look on her reading the book. Go into it with an open mind when you ask her and hopefully it will produce a positive response.

Stay positive my friend you are a GREAT person

[MuddleThrough]

James, you're the one that made the change in your life. I'm glad to see that you have. As far as your teacher/student perspective goes, I don't agree with this at all. I think we all have both components to our personalities and we all have valuable life experiences to bring to the table. Don't lock yourself into a role.

I plan to go into it with a positive attitude. Negative thoughts happen somewhat spontaneously, so stopping them is not really an option. Choosing to recognize them for what they are and not acting on them as if they are reality is what counts. Gently casting them aside. I am acknowledging my fears and choosing to act in a way that, while it may have risks involved, offers opportunity for connection over opinions as well as choosing to act together to improve the relationship. Who knows? Maybe it's too much pressure, but then again, what have I really got to lose?