Harmonic Divergence

[Corri]

Well.

I personally think that both NOP AND Hap are correct.

LG, don't be stupid. But don't get overly suspicious. NOP is right, most women will not dump OM on the first go round. Bit different in Hap's case, cause she is dealing with a man, and, sorry, it's just different.

HOWEVER. Those DB techniques DO work. MWD has to be given all kinds of credit, all over the board, for her work with these types of sitches. IF IN DOUBT, CALL A DB COACH. Can I empahsize that enough? Even more than your MC, I think YOUR best bet is to get side advice from a DB coach.

Glad to hear your agent called you.

Don't mean to pry... but what kind of illustration/design work do you do? Any web stuff? Got my own selfish reasons for asking. You can email me at [e-mail]. I will say here, publicly, I will only discuss professional matters with you over email... all R talk it limited to here. K?

Corri

[Lillieperl]

Lil said to LG: Don't disappear from the R in an attempt to be "nice" and give her lots of room. It's okay to act like you care what happens to the relationship. In fact, it's really important that you be present and visible, kwim?

LG asked: Lillieperl, or anyone else, could you talk more about the idea expressed above?

I don't remember exactly what I was replying to when I said that, but I think it was sounding to me like you were trying to be Mr. Nice Guy, not too demanding, giving her lots of space to think things over, etc. My advice was "don't disappear," by which I meant don't be too accommodating, compliant, easygoing, etc. Your W has committed a major transgression-- not that I'm advocating burning at the stake or anything-- but you need to Be There, Want Stuff, Ask for Things, Have Opinions. I don't know if this is any clearer... but identify what you want and speak up. If you don't want her to move out, then say so. If you want the two of you to go to counseling, say so. Don't just let her wander off while she figures out what she wants to do. Don't be passive.

This may not be any clearer.

Something about your R contirbuted to conditions which led her make herself vulnerable to an EA or a PA. It does not happen unless the one having the A opens the door a crack and lets someone else in. I'm not saying it was your fault. SHE made that decision, but she did it because something was lacking in her interaction with you. In the past when I was vulnerable to an A, the way I would describe my internal state was "starved for attention." It was when my partner neglected me. That didn't make it right, by any means. IMHO it's important that you can SHOW her that you understand that you contributed to the conditions that made an A appealing. That she got your attention, and that you have changed and you are prepared to change MORE.

And cac is right: I agree that you've divulged too much personal information about your sitch. Real names, university names, city names-- suggest you cease that immediately. Way too easy to find people.

[haphazard]

Nop,

I agree with you. She won't just end it becaues LG agrees to stop snooping. I snooped (in fact I didn't snoop I had a legitimate reason to be looking at the cell phone bills and it just kind of jumped out at me) but anyhow I found out and once I knew I knew. The fact is LG knows. She won't just dump OM. It will take a lot of basic DB work on LG's part to get her to the place where she is ready to dump OM. While this is going on LG has no need to snoop. He is just taking care of his own business until she feels ready to come back to the fold. His good - nay exemplary - behaviour is likely to guilt trip her out so that she will be contrite. That is the point when he accepts her apology and he still has no need to snoop. Unless he "feels" there is something wrong.

If he DOES snoop, then he keeps his info to himself. And here I do really agree with you because forewarned is forearmed. He just has no need to use the results of his snooping to control or threaten her. Just to keep himself informed. If she carries on lying he does not say "I know you're lying because....." he just says "oh". But he knows what he knows.

LG: Cac is right you do give away too much personal info here. Keep anonymous, it makes no difference to us, but like Cac says (and NOP has experience of) you don't know who else is lurking here.

Fran

[GonnaGoBlind]

Cac, Didn't realize you were up here in the NE. I had never heard of candlepin bowling before moving here. Back in Maryland where I grew up they had an equivalent called duckpins, which were quite a bit smaller but more or less the same shape as normal 10-pin and they used a small bowling ball. It's been a while, but I think candlepin uses the small ball too.

[Lord Grenville]

I feel like a real dolt for including so much personal or specific information in my thread. I tried sending a personal message to Jamesjohn, but the board software is not allowing me to send the message. I am hoping I can get some assistance from the moderator side of things to delete some NOUNs I should not have used.

Does anyone know if previously posted messages can be edited by an administrator?

I had a great day today in Boston, at my 6 hour job interview/tryout to become a corporate graphics facilitator. I was one of about 8 candidates, and we were all asked to complete various visual exercises and problem solving situations. I got the sense that I scored really well, and I felt my self confidence growing by the hour. I am trying not to get my hopes up too high, but this could be the perfect DB job for me, because I would be interacting with all kinds of artistic and corporate professionals, and there would be chances to travel within the U.S. and internationally. It would be a huge leap from being a solo freelancer moping in his studio when not much work is coming his way, to saying to my W: "I'll see you in three days - I've got to go to Chicago for an imporant session with -------."

Thanks to all of you who have helped provide more clarity for me in finding the balance between not being too nice to W, and not pressuring or pressing for answers, etc.

Also the various views on snooping have helped me very much too.
After beginning to get serious about GAL in the past 2 days, I feel like I want to take a break from snooping, but I do have the resources I can check in the future if I need to have a better idea of what is going on between W and OM.

I can't believe how much can happen in one week!

However, I also am prepared to work for 104 more weeks of DB if that is what it takes to heal my marriage and make it better than before.

[Lillieperl]

The private messaging function seems to be turned off. It was on for a couple of days right after the new board went up.

See if you can find an email addy for one of the admins. They can edit and delete posts.

Good luck on the job!

[Lord Grenville]

I just spoke with my W a little while ago. Yesterday the plan was she would spend the night at her brother's house tonight, and then we would see each other at Church in the morning, and she would return home with me in the afternoon.

Well she just informed me she was planning on staying over there tomorrow night too, and I said that's fine, and tried to act nonchalant.

However, after I got off the phone with her, I noticed that a good portion of her clothing and a suitcase is gone. It's too late to call her brother's house, so I guess I will have to wait until tomorrow to find out what the true situation is, however, right now, it looks like the separation is official.

We had talked 3 or 4 weeks ago about possibly doing a "controlled separation" where we would negotiate a fixed time period, agreements on frequency and types of communication, and possibly seeing each once a week to catch up with each other. I did not want a separation, but I figured if that is what she was pushing for, a separation with clearly defined understandings would be best, and she seemed amenable to that.

But now it looks like she has initiated the separation with no notification or discussion with me.

I'll get the official version tomorrow, and deal with the facts as best I can.

[NOPkins]

Hi, LG.

I'm sorry. I wish your wife had the courtesy to tell you to your face.

If the other man has a wife, I think that you should pay her the courtesy of telling her what you know about the affair. She has a right to know.

All the best,
-NOPkins-

[Lord Grenville]

I am seeing that every day can bring surprises and that best laid plans and strategies do not always align, and that maybe strategies are not always the way to make decisions. And sometimes helping hands from above can assist.

Anyhow, I prayed fervently last night around a particular event that took place today, and for guidance on how to best communicate my W today. Things turned out better than I had hoped.

After church, I told her that I have realized that a separation is probably best for me, since it will help me to become more confident and help break negative habitual patterns of interaction with her, and of course it would help give her more space and time to think things through. I could tell she was surprised, and yet appreciative. I also asked her to let me know which works of art, music, and books, etc she would like to take with her. She thanked me for that.

We enjoyed our conversation during lunch, and she complimented me on my new shirt, and how good it looked on me! I talked confidently about my job prospects and and how I am looking foward to making art for the enjoyment of it, rather than having the worry of making a business out of it right now.

She talked about how she feels so uncreative right now. I reminded her that she is welcome to take the new work bench I built her last to wherever she ends up going. Then, while looking deeply into my eyes, she thanked me for making such a beautiful workbench!

I also told her how several persons in our condo Association are trying to draft me to be re-elected for another 3 years as a Trustee(which she saw as one of many places I gave too much of my time and energy ahead of our art business) However, when I said: "There is no way I am going to do that again!" She congratulated me and said "Give me a high-five!" I have never seen her do a "high-five" with anyone before, and so this really blew my mind.

I know these are small signs, but for them to happen after only 3 days of GALing, I am very encouraged.

I am realistic and I belive that her R with the OM is probably going to get more serious, but I am going to put up one hell of a head turning 180 in the next months.

Just keep your eyes here for the continuing saga.

[Lord Grenville]

I have a new anthem to live by, as I go forward in the next weeks and months.

For entertainment and distration, I was watching the Academy Awards last night, and as Melissa Etheridge began to sing her nominated song, "An Inconvenient Truth", each line of the lyrics rang clearly through my heart with a tone of truth.

Without further ado, here are the lyrics:

Melissa Etheridge:

I Need to Wake Up

Have I been sleeping?
I've been so still
Afraid of crumbling
Have I been careless?
Dismissing all the distant rumblings
Take me where I am supposed to be
To comprehend the things that I can't see

Cause I need to move
I need to wake up
I need to change
I need to shake up
I need to speak out
Something's got to break up
I've been asleep
And I need to wake up
Now...


I am not an island
I am not alone
I am my intentions
Trapped here in this flesh and bone

And I need to move
I need to wake up
I need to change
I need to shake up
I need to speak out
Something's got to break up
I've been asleep
And I need to wake up
Now

I want to change
I need to shake up
I need to speak out
Oh, Something's got to break up
I've been asleep
And I need to wake up
Now