Seriously, MJ, I really like this. I'm with Cobra: we're so fortunate to be on a bulletin board with so many thoughtful and relationship-obsessed people.
I, too, feel sorry for your poor, bruised bunny.
You're welcome and thank you.
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Hairdog, who, I kid you not, just bought a copy of the Tynan book based on your recommendation.
Cool. Monkeygirl picked up a copy of "A Round-Heeled Woman" yesterday. It's the true life adventures of a woman who was sex-deprived all her life and decided to do something about it when she was 66. She placed an ad in the New York Review of Books personal ads section. It said "Before I turn 67-next March- I would like to have a lot of sex with a man I like. If you want to talk first, Trollope works for me.". If everyone would like I can share the good bits with the BB as I read them like I used to do with my naughty HD girlfriends in H.S..
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I guess the question becomes if you do become fully integrated enough to not "need" to be in a relationship can you still passionately "want" to be in a relationship?
I guess the question becomes if you do become fully integrated enough to not "need" to be in a relationship can you still passionately "want" to be in a relationship?
I think yes with the understanding that there are a lot of ups and downs in life and sometimes you will still "need". Being fully integrated does not equate to being an emotional island.
Not "needing" also does not equate with being an emotional island.
Of course people will still need-- or be convinced that they do if they don't ask the question, "Do I NEED?"-- but most of what we think we need is really something we want. And, yes, there is a difference between the two-- in the effect ON US. From the outside they look the same.
Actually "wanting" is less problematic. "Need" is driven and has hooks in it. Also need leads to entitlement. When you "need," panic and resentment set in when you don't get whatever it is. When you want, then both of you are free to choose with no psyche-threatening consequences.
I just finished listening to the entire Byron Katie audiobook, "I Need Your Love, Is This True?" It's dynamite stuff. Could put this whole board out of business.
I suppose becoming higher functioning means being better able to integrate the different aspects of one's personality.
Some might say becoming higher functioning means realizing that different aspects of one's personality will never be all that integrated. Then you can learn navigate thru the world with a sense of comfort while different personality aspects wane and wax. Striving for ever increasing integration focuses on making yourself be a certain thing, rather than focusing on simply being.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Some might say becoming higher functioning means realizing that different aspects of one's personality will never be all that integrated. Then you can learn navigate thru the world with a sense of comfort while different personality aspects wane and wax. Striving for ever increasing integration focuses on making yourself be a certain thing, rather than focusing on simply being.
I would like to believe that this is true and it does make sense. Just live through the seasons of yourself recognizing that fall will pass into winter and spring will come again and then Monkeygirl will be feeling the heat once more.-LOL I guess that learning to take care of yourself would be best summed up with the expression "There is no such thing as bad weather if you dress properly for it.". I guess I'll go buy a new apron, a pair of leather boots, a pretty spring frock and a string bikini.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
"There is no such thing as bad weather if you dress properly for it.".
I love that one. "There is no bad weather, just bad clothes."
It's interesting to me that you found my H's remark to be mean. I just thought it was depressing.
Your the one who it affected in a negative way. Your the one who needs to set boundaries and protect yourself.
Don't confuse supplication with honoring a contract.
I dont, my point was its a lot easier to point at a concrete reason for our dissatisfaction with our mate, then it is to own our own feelings and set boundaries. My examples were typical male statements conveying what that looks like when its the female telling him to change concrete things that have nothing to do with the problem.
Thank you for your diagrams. That was brilliant.
BF, clearly your problem is that your X was very lovable and sexy because she was girlish and high-drive and therefore emanating a bunny/monkey spirit but she lacked maturity so she couldn't honor a contract or care for you with a generous spirit. This is why you don't respect women. This is why I told you to ask a woman to have sex with you after you meet her halfway across the field. If you have a sexual relationship with a woman who is more in touch with her cow and/or lioness, you will feel safer and more secure in your relationship. You don't have to do all the work just because you're the male.
I can see why it appears that way here, but no. IRL I appeal to the lion and the monkey. I dont allow the cow, Its not her job to be my cow, and its not my responsibility to take care of her bunny. Its her's. I appeal to the lioness, becasue I neither ask nor tell. They 'know' what I want and they come to me, or not. I dont care. Once they come to me I appeal to the monkey. Sometimes I flip flop these two. Depends on how busy I am.
I gave x a chance to operate from the cow, and expected her to honor her lioness. She was too busy getting her bunny taken care of. When I wanted her back I appealed to the bunny and required the cow. We allready knew about the monkey, although it didnt hurt to hint at it. Being forced to require the cow seems innately unfeminine. I didnt beleive in her lioness anymore. I checked inappropriately for it once and the bunny hopped away.
edited to say HOWEVER, I did not honor the implicit agreement of Lions. end of edit
I refuse to appeal to the bunny. It sets up a unhealthy dynamic with inappropriate and unreasonable implicit expectations. OM is very succesful because he understands how to wait for the bunny to come out. In reality he is an eagle. Sucks for the bunny. Fortunately for the eagle they propagate constantly.
You don't have to do all the work just because you're the male Your right. I thought that was what I was trying to help guys understand.
Im curious what is differant about your H now, then when you made your original contract with him. From what you say it seems like he is stepping up to the plate in some real ways since three years ago. Have you given and shown appreciation for that? Take care of your bunny. Its your job.
I guess the question becomes if you do become fully integrated enough to not "need" to be in a relationship can you still passionately "want" to be in a relationship?
R's are a need. If you learn to cow your bunny, and still decide to leave this R you will go into another, or many others, be it as you will. I find it curious that your choices are to stay in a twice a week? SSM, or go live by yourself in a orchard surrounded cottage. That sounds more SS. If the problem is being tired of IYO taking care of someone else, then stop and take care of you.
When x wanted to get back together with me, during our first seperation, she said if I told her no she was going to join Greenpeace. yeah right. a city girl like her. lol. I didnt laugh at her though. you know when we got D, she didnt join Greenpeace. She went to Houston for a week. The place she was angry at me for 'taking her too'. Originally it was a mutual decision. Thats how I remember it. Not comparing, just remembering.
My question is do you need perspective control, or do you need your perspective controlled for you to remain in a R. I asked LFL once before, but she doesnt talk about her sitch so its hard to tell.
youll always be able to find a way to see that his top is less then yours. Its what women do.
If they can the lioness will walk away with a snarl, when the cow is worn out. If they cant, the monkey heads chattering and flinging fruit, from the trees, when the bunny gets hurt.
Its ok, it is what it is. No person can be all things to another. just imagining for a minute, I can picture being depressed if I had stepped up in a whole bunch of ways, and my W still wasnt happy with me. I would definitely wonder why she wanted to have sex with me. I would probably think, Its not because she likes me. Some people need that to be intimate.
If you twist what he says into personalized hurtful remarks, instead of just hearing his thoughts, well... thats just assuming the negative instead of listening.
kinda like my comment about physically attractive and sexually available post partum women.
It got twisted into all kinds of things. I said physically attractive. Not sexually attractive. They are differant. It is what it is, a deflated balloon is not as pretty as a unstretched one. The weight of my comment was on sexually available though. 6 weeks ???!!!! what???!!!!! NO WAY!!! THATS INSANE!!! How selfish of her.
Don't give up hope. Six weeks is doctor speak. I think I usually make it four or five tops. In between I really am willing and able to do some pretty good stuff if H is game. But....yes, there is less physical attraction there and that is why the reliance is on the mental/relational. Anywhoo - take note and see what you think when it is your turn for that particular life experience.
I always get in trouble in the pregnant and directly postpartum period because I am very earth mothery on one hand but I identify very little with the cow or the bunny as a sexual being. When I am required to be a "cow" by the demands of a stage of my life (babyhood) eventually I find my lioness really itching. That is what tends to bring out some pretty agressive sexuality although strictly speaking I am in nurture mode.
That is the cross my H has to bear. He doesn't "get" the bunny at all but he kinda looks for a cow/monkey crossover which I am most definately not very often.
