Choc, yeah, he's checked in once every 6 months or so. Here's his post from 3/23/06 saying things are going well. Search on CSW in the name field and posts greater than 6 weeks ago in the date range and you'll get 3 of his posts saying things are going well.
Corri, That's what I remember too. It was seeing the successes and more importantly the work, frustration and everything that went into it that really got me out of my funk too. While MrsGGB and I still have a long row to hoe, we are light years ahead of where we were when I joined this board almost 3 years ago. MrsGGB certainly stepped up to the plate, but that would not have happened if I just sat around waiting for her to make the first move, in fact we would not be together anymore, as I was ready to leave in Nov 2004.
I think the NOPs could answer this one better, but I'm thinking NOP was here for a good year or so before he started to see what he considered to be significant changes. And their progress was hot/cold for some time, I'm thinking. You could go back to his threads to get an idea...
Mrs. NOP, I'm sure, will remember it a bit differently.
Thanks for your advice. I ageee with several points that you made, and some of your points I don't agree with. "You can't score without the ball," HOW TRUE! I have been a complete idiot for not seeing that. I don't feel that I'm "doing nothing". I am working on myself at this point because that's all I am able to work on; I have no cooperation from my spouse to work on our marriage. But, back to your earlier point. You're right, I'm not moving the ball. That is going to change. I think I'm going to set up a date/togetherness night every weekend. I'm going to schedule a babysitter for one night every weekend, plan for fun events, and take her out (of coure there'd be no sex, petting, or romance on these dates as we're an old married couple contemplating divorce :(). We stopped doing together things a long time ago. I have expressed to my wife (long before I found this forum) that if we do reconcile our differences, this part of our life together would change.
The little conversation at the end of your post is almost exactly to the letter the conversation my wife and I had about a week after she asked for a divorce. I basically told her my feelings about divorce based on her reasons, and told her that I wasn't going to argue the point nor was I going to get a divorce. Her response was that I couldn't stop her from leaving. My response was that that was true, but that I sure don't have to put my name on any divorce papers. This was not a heated conversation, no one raised their voice. That was all that was said. Afterwards, for several weeks I tried to get her engaged in our marriage, to discuss and work on our problems. She never responded positively. All she could talk about was our past, the bad parts of our past. I heard the seven year no sex thing until I was blue in the face. I have a real problem with people that let their past control their future. I feel pity for anyone in that place. Yes, we should learn from our past, but to mire your future in the past is a terrible waste. I must say that I was shocked when my wife was only able to talk about our last seven years together. I never once thought that a person as intelligent as my wife would mire her future in her past. After reading about the WAW syndrome, the portions about someone having their minds made up and not being able to question their decisions, to accept their conclusions as facts that could not be challenged, I gleaned a little insight into her thinking. I never once heard from her that she too was a culprit in the demise of our marriage. I accepted my portion of the responsibility for this seven year no sex disaster, said that I was sorry for my part in it, and asked for her forgiveness. I didn't bold the prior statement for you BF, it was for the people that have said that I've not taken any responsibility for my actions.
I read earlier that someone thought that my wife has filed for divorce. She hasn't filed for anything as far as I know. She asked for a divorce and we both have attorneys, that's it. I don't even know if she's turned in the required paperwork to her attorney to move forward with a divorce. I have not filled out the first form that I was given by my attorney. My attorney is on retainer and that's it. I haven't heard a peep out of her, my attorney, in weeks, so I've assumed that nothing has happened on the divorce front. We're in limbo.
Man this two months issue has really come back to bite me on the butt. I think this is the fourth time that I've said this, the two months time frame is arbitray. I'll stay in my marriage and work on myself and my marriage for any length of time needed as long as I have hope and can see progress.
BTW BF, the "jumping throught hoops" thing was sarcasm. I'd never do that and my wife would never expect me to do that. Nor I her.
I went back and checked NOPs thread. He first showed up on the board on 2/25/03.
On 12/19/03 he wrote to me:
Quote:
In a perfect world, that transition, while possibly painful, would do no long term damage. I don't believe that is possible for us. I didn't when I started this process, I don't now. I think that, as I mentioned months ago, I can either lower my expectations and accept what we have now, or blow it up and have nothing to show for it. My dilemma is the same as it has been - how to live with less - and like it.
There was more sex, but still a very high level of frustration going on with him, and he was still ready to throw in the towel.
09/07/04 is when he returned to say that 'recently' things had taken a major turn in their R... and it was on the heels of Mrs. NOP reading all of NOPs posts here.
Corri, it was a joke. I really don't care if I disappoint you. I was being nice.
For the person who thinks that I may know Corri in real life. I don't think that I do, but who knows, Corri could be a neighbor, a coworker, the person that delivers my mail, the nurse at my doctor's office, a person that I ocassionally see at the park, anyone. I might know her and not even know that I know her in the context that you're asking about my knowing her. (I think that that's the first time that I've ever used "know" four times in a sentence that made sense.)
Hmmm, having a vibe issue. My advice to you would be to climb into a bathtub or go sit in a closet or stand in the arch of a doorway. You might be in an earthquake.
I think I'm going to set up a date/togetherness night every weekend. I'm going to schedule a babysitter for one night every weekend, plan for fun events, and take her out (of coure there'd be no sex, petting, or romance on these dates as we're an old married couple contemplating divorce :().
Good for you! I think that is a wonderful idea.
Keep in mind, your wife is really pissed right now (whether you agree with her or not, or think she is justified or not). So when you ask her on the date, try a boyish approach to it, and maybe fill in with some humor, if the situation isn't too charged.
You could try and hold her hand... and if she pulls away, let her, and not even comment on it.
NO R talk. At ALL.
The DB book recommends you doing a 180 on past behavior, and to really try and be her 'friend.' There is a section on this site about doing 180s, and if you get the time, you might want to check it out, and see what some others have tried.
If you get the chance, I HIGHLY recommend you call one of the DB coaches on this site. Though all of us around here like to think we are every bit as smart as some shrinks are... the truth of the matter is, we can really only speak from our own points of view. These DB coaches have worked with hundreds of people, all in situations like your own, and I've heard nothing but great reviews on the advice they give.
I didnt make any comments about the jumping thru hoops remark or several of your other frustrated and sarcastic remarks. As a fellow sarcastician Im fairly attune to it.
I am working on myself at this point because that's all I am able to work on; I have no cooperation from my spouse to work on our marriage. But, back to your earlier point. You're right, I'm not moving the ball. That is going to change. I think I'm going to set up a date/togetherness night every weekend. I'm going to schedule a babysitter for one night every weekend, plan for fun events, and take her out
This sounds good. I like it. Nice job. I was happy to hear about the D convo you allready had. I have a suggestion to make. One of those subtle differances in how it appears to the OP. Instead of making all the plans and taking on all of the effort on yourself, Plan it and make her a part of it.
ex. (these are loose ex. adjust for you and your SO) A: I want to spend some time with you this weekend. Is sat or sunday good for you? Mrs. A: I dont know. Im not sure thats a good idea. I dont know if we should spend time together, Im still thinking about the 7 years of pain/D blahblah. A: Ok. Sat is good for me too. I was thinking we could go and see/do (fillintheblank). Get a sitter for S7 from 5 to 11. Mrs. A : I dont know how Ill feel about you that day. A: Good point. You can be a real pain sometimes, but I can put up with you for 6 hours I think. I managed the last ?? years. one thing though. No talking about the R.
The point is do not be put off. Do not be insistant or controlling but dont let lack of enthusiasm put YOU off. Know what you want and go get it. Give her something to do, so she is a part of it. Let her do the womans work. Your W is a very succesful woman in her career. She has her masculinity developed. She needs you to be more so, so she can relax into you with her femininity. Its going to take PROOF on your part and TIME. Youve eliminated placating and supplicating is appears. that just means you are not unappealing. Thats not the same as being attractive.
There is another BB started by and primarily populated by women whoes careers have been more succesful then their H's. It was originally intended to let their finances all hang out to empower other women to be fiscally responsible. I dont post, I just lurk, but the majority of them love their H's they just want them to step up in the M.
When I originally started writing my post to you I said its fairly obvious you take responsibility for your actions, and what do, you would like to see from your wife. Keep the first modify the second. You want respect from your W. You have to earn it and require it. Earning it means keeping your word, and persevering in the face of opposition. Requiring it means- when someone disrespects you, you call them on it. You dont hope they will just respect you. If I just hoped for respect and thought hey, I want respect, Id have my ass handed to me.
All she could talk about was our past, the bad parts of our past. I heard the seven year no sex thing until I was blue in the face. I have a real problem with people that let their past control their future. I feel pity for anyone in that place. Yes, we should learn from our past, but to mire your future in the past is a terrible waste. I must say that I was shocked when my wife was only able to talk about our last seven years together. I never once thought that a person as intelligent as my wife would mire her future in her past. After reading about the WAW syndrome
7 years is quite substantial. She has a lot of resentment. She does need to vent and release this, and know that you understand. I totally get what you are saying, because its nearly impossible for me to hold onto negatives. (even those that affect my survival). She is not you. Womens brains are wired differant. you dont have to understand, you do have to deal with it.
her emotions and her logic are parallel. Our emotions are behind our logic. (except when 3 or 4 of them pin mr logic down and kick the crap out of him. ) There is no better or right. Its just differant.
That being said I just posted to Rigley in his thread, about setting mild boundaries to assist her in breaking out of that negative emotional loop. As David Deida says in 'The way of the superior man' if she can provide her own masculine energy, what does she need you for? If you have a problem with it, then require respect. Tell her what you want. Failing to requiring respect is not proactive or radically honest. You want to be needed, right? Be the man she needs. Right now your just a person who is there. Ignoring her.
Your W has so much masculine energy in her business and social life you slipped into she wanted in your M. Time to turn it around. 14 months at least. at least. Oh yeah relax on calling yourself names like idiot. You were unaware and improperly conditioned. Your rectifying it. Kudos to you.
) There is no better or right. Its just differant.