"The talk we had was a very good one, I felt. He opened up a lot about a lot of things. I'm trying to just be a friend right now....sometimes I really can DETACH from it all, put my personal feelings aside and try to be a good friend because this is about HIM right now and not our relationship or it's outcome."
Wow, this is a great description of why detaching actually allows you to be more loving and more emotionally open and intimate with someone. And, for all those listening, notice that is has NOTHING to do with caring about the person less or not wanting the person in your life.
Anyway, I admire you for handling this so well. Even though you must be exhausted and feel a bit of a wreck, you really are handling this with compassion and understanding toward both of you.
NM - I notice he threatened to take Vicodin when he was threatening suicide, right? Are you concerned that he might be abusing the pain pills? They can be very addictive. If he seems really sedated right now, it might be from combining pain pills with whatever psych drugs they gave him. Can you check his bottles and count his pills (without him knowing)to keep an eye on him?
If it weren't for bad luck....Tuesday, 2/13, I awoke to a phone call at 5:45 AM from SO's boss asking where he was...within a few minutes and numerous phone calls to police, etc, we found out he was in a severe car accident on his way to work and was being air-lifted to a trauma center about 2 hours from here. What a scary morning....when I called the trauma center, he hadn't even arrived yet...was still in the air, that freaked me out.
After some frantic phone calls with his mother, father, my mother - to get them here to our house, the trauma doctor called me saying SO had arrived, he was conscious, did I want to speak with him. I spoke with him for a second or two, then the doctor got back on the phone saying they had to take him for tests - MRI's, Cat scans, etc. Me, his mom, & dad, headed out the door for the excruciatingly long two hour drive to the hospital...not knowing whether we would find him dead or alive when we got there. I know - I had spoken with him, HE had in fact given the doctor my full name and our phone number, but I've also known people to talk while having severe internal injuries...all I could think was that this was God's way of punishing him for the crap the week before. I really thought he was going to be dead when we got to the hospital.
As it turns out, he's incredibly lucky. No broken bones, no internal injuries, no head trauma - not even one stitch. He was pinned in the truck upside down for about an hour in 2 degree weather before they could get him out and he has some major bruising to his legs where they were squished beneath the dash & steering wheel; his head was tossed about and he has bruising on his vertebrae resulting in the need for him to wear a cervical collar, but all in all, he pretty much came out of this wreck unscathed when it could have been much, much worse. When I went to see the truck, I couldn't believe anyone could have lived through it. And, yes - he's fanatical about wearing his seat belt at all times, thank goodness.
Tuesday in the ER, he asked me to stay with him, which I did. I ended up being stranded at the hospital for 2 nights due to the storm that came through (yuck - no shower for 2 days, sleeping in a chair - let me tell you, the thought of throwing myself down a flight of stairs just so I could get my own bed & bathroom crossed my mind more than once, lmao )... He was released from the hospital on Saturday and is home now; actually doing very well.
There's more to the story...but, my time this morning is limited. I just needed to get this out. Yes, Ellie including his heavy use of prescription painkillers; plus he talked more with me about his session with the psychologist before the accident. I'll have to come back at a later time and fill in those details.
I don't think there's anything left to happen in my crazy world.
Geez Louise! Maybe the only good thing out of this is he will see that you are there for him, that life is precious, and that he better get his stuff together!!!
Keep an eye on those pain pills - he may need them now, but I am worried about his potential for abuse.
Find a way to get a little help, too, so that you can take a break for a couple of hours and do something for yourself. Like the airplane instructions about putting the oxygen mask on yourself before your kids - you can't help all the people you're carrying right now if you fall apart yourself, so make sure to take care of yourself.
On 2/6, we had the whole suicide threat thing.... SO says it wasn't all about OW. But her ending things with him was the icing (on the cake he's been eating?).
Anyway.....the vicodin / percoset addiction he's gotten to....and, YES! I vehemently believe it IS an addiction as from what I've found out, this stems back at least 3-4 years - due to the ever increasing pain in his abdomen due to Crohn's Disease, diverticulitis -whatever it is not yet determined by a doctor. His colonoscopy appointments keep getting rescheduled due to one drama or another....but, until he has that medical issue narrowed down, he will have the severe pain in his stomach, thus relying heavily on the painkillers.
More recently, particularly these last 3 months since I moved back in and OW issued her ultimatum, I found out that he is now taking Valium, given to him by a "friend". This "friend" is a woman, older than me, married to an incredibly wealthy man 20 years her senior. This "friend" is wack job. She is so lost in her own way, has mental issues of her own (bi-polar); and relies heavily on prescriptions to get through her days...she thinks that by spending money on people or giving them things, she can buy their friendship - or at least that's how it appears to me.
On the Friday after his accident, SO asked me to come to the hospital - at 4:30 in the afternoon, 2 hours away. I didn't really have a problem with that - he sounded depressed. His mom & I went. When we got there, they decided to change his room. His room-mate had been discharged and they moved SO to make room for a female patient. While moving his things, I opened the dresser drawer and found a f**king pill laying in there. Now I don't know pills by sight, but I "KNEW" that it wasn't something good; and knowing that the "friend" had been to visit him earlier in the day, I kind of knew where it came from and what I suspected it to be (Valium).
I was irate. I looked at him, he saw the look on my face and then started questioning where the dresser was. I said the dresser is fine and that I had what was in it. Then he started with the BS - it's my Lexapro, I'm supposed to take it at night - they gave it to me in the morning - so I put it away until night time. I said "Bullshit. This is ridiculous. I cannot believe that "friend" had the audacity to give you a frigging valium while you are laying here in the hospital with narcotics dripping through your veins."
I ended up giving the pill back to him with the words - "You're a big boy; if you want to kill yourself, then do it here. I'm through with this crap, you make your own choices and I don't want to have anything to do with it." With that, I walked out. His mother followed me and I told her that I would not go back in to see him. If she wanted to, that was fine, I would wait downstairs but I refused to go back in. She said, "No, let's go.", so we left - with no word to SO.
On the drive home, SO texted me, telling me I acted like an asshole and it was his Lexapro I found. I showed his mom the text and never responded to him. Then he started calling....after about 10 calls, I turned the ringer off. I couldn't speak with him right then - I didn't want to. I decided that when I got home, I would look at both the Lexapro and the Valiuim that was at the house, figure out if it was either of them, then go from there. I have a pretty good photographic memory, plus I had his mother write down the numbers on the pill just in case I forgot them before I got home. In the meantime - I was NOT going to talk to him before I found out which pill it was.
And, sure as the sun rises, the damn tihng turned out to be a Valium. And, from what I read, you're not supposed to mix them with painkillers; muscle relaxants; certain anti-depressants; nor antacids. HE TAKES ALL FOUR OF THESE THINGS!!!!! He was on Dilaudin at the hospital, plus a muscle relaxant that I think was called Flexarol or something, plus the Lexapro, and Prilosec for Pete's sake!! What a jackass.
The next morning he called - never saying a word about the night before, just that he was being released and could I come get him. I said OK. When we got there, I could tell he had taken the valium the night before - I've seen him take them before and it makes him catatonic - exactly how we found him that morning. The nurses came in to give him the instructions for home care, telling him to keep the collar on his neck, not to drive - he started acting rebellious with "I have to work, I have to drive - I don't need the collar, blah, blah." Right in front of the nurse I told him to keep his mouth shut, that "I" needed to know what was going to happen to him if he took the collar off and fell to the floor paralyzed. That shut him up.
When the nurse left, SO's mom followed her. I presume she told the nurse about the valium, because the nurse came back in and while she didn't say anything exact, she alluded to the fact that she knew he was taking them and gave him a pretty brusque talking to. That also kind of put him in his place.
On the drive back home, he then brought the subject up. I told him I wasn't going to argue with him about it. I said that he's almost 34 years old and he's old enough to make his own decisions and that while I was disappointed in what he did, it was none of my business, which is why I had given him the pill back instead of reporting it to the nurse.
Since he's been home, I see that he has taken only 1 of the 4 valiums that were here...and I don't think that he has any hidden stashes of them.
So that is the drug use that I'm concerned about. Heavy addiction to painkillers, now relying on Valium, mixed with everything else.
He asked me again last night about it and I told him that I did feel he was addicted. He didn't really say anything. I told him he wasn't like someone in back alley smoking crack, and that I understand the physical pain in his abdomen, but that still doesn't mean he doesn't have a problem with taking too many and combining things that shouldn't be combined. Again, no real answer or comments from him.
Somehow we also got on the subject of me moving out; OW, etc. I told him I wanted him to give me half the tax return he's getting and I was giving that cash to someone to hold for me for when I feel the need to move out. He then accused me of trying to make him more crazy. I said "I don't know what to do. I don't know if staying here helps you or hinders you." I said now that you're getting help - then he cut me off with "I will never be helped, there is no helping someone who suffers what I have." So I said to him, "Then why bother to continue with your appointments if that's how you feel?" No answer. Then I said, "SO, I know this is all new territory; I know you're hurt by the OW thing, me, the kids, work, everything. I know that you may think that you have tried everything you can think of and maybe you have, but going to the doctor, that's what they are trained to do - find answers, find ideas that you have not thought of." I said "The doctor can probably come up with other ideas that you or I or whomever has not thought of." No response to that, however I did see him contemplating what I said and realizing I just "may" be right. LOL
He asked why I still wanted the money to move out. I really didn't want to get into it, but he kept pressing. Finally, I said, "The truth is, I don't know how much longer I can go on living with you in a non-relationship. That's what it basically comes down to. If you're not going get yourself help; if you're going to continue to rely on others - i.e. "drug-dealer friend; other women - then I can't watch that much longer. It's not good for me or the kids."
I can't remember all of the convo...but something came up about his profile online in which he had this really pathetic, icky bunch of lines directed to OW, including "I love you OW". I told him I saw it and that I could not lay in bed with him each night; have him leaning on me; good, old trusty NM, always there, always reliable. I said I felt used. I said that I knew that I was letting myself be used, and for certain things I didn't mind, but that others things just weren't acceptable to me any more. I also told him, as a friend - that having stuff like that out there made him look very pathetic, desperate, and needy. I gave some kind of example about it, and said the person who breaks up with you is not going to come back to you because you're all clingy and desperate and pathetic; that as a general rule, the ex will not find that attractive.
I know, some of this was probably not good DBing, but I am about through with it all. It's been 3-4 years of dissension between us and I believe my tolerance level has been met. I gave him the advice about his profile as a friend. (And sure as shit, he went and changed it later to something very generic.) It was hard knowing that he would probably take that advice from me (change his profile), but, I didn't like the thought of people thinking of him in that negative way. Does that make any sense?
I don't know, maybe I'm still too enmeshed. Well, duh, of course I am. But that detachment thing does come in handy in those instances when he does start talking about his hurt about OW and what "she" did to "him". And for me to sit there and listen to this, knowing everything that he did (lying to her, cheating on her, etc), to hear him explain how devastated he is that they aren't together anymore - well let me tell you all, it's excruciating at times and I'm thankful that I can disassociate myself from my hurt feelings and sit through it like a friend would and offer the advice that a friend would. And yet, even after saying those things about OW, he'll admit to not being ready to let ME go; not knowing what he wants with me. He's told me many times that the thought of me moving out again puts him in a state of sheer panic and his fears of abandonment and loss come crashing in on him. Again, I try to keep my own personal, biased feelings aside and offer advice the best I can, including encouraging him to continue with the therapist.
Ok...that's all I've got time for right now. I actually started writing this on Monday...didn't get much time to finish up what I had started until now.
Of course, right now he may have abdominal pains any time he withdraws from the pain pills, since narcotics addicts have a lot of cramping and pain when they go through withdrawal.
I don't blame you for being fed up. If you can do anything to get him clean, though - even if you plan to leave - it will be better for your kids to have a sober dad.
My goodness, what a crazy couple of months you've had (not to diminish the crazy couple of years you've had, but yikes!)
I don't have really much to offer in the way of advice of observations, just wanted to drop you a line.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
I hope things even out for you soon. What an incredibly rough patch! It sounds as though your conversation with SO was actually very good. And, BTW, I don't think that there is anything anti-DB about reporting what is going on with you directly.
The thing to avoid is sharing feelings when it is all about trying to get WAS to respond in a particular way. Crying to get WAS to "get it" or feel guilty, declaring true love over and over again, trying to get WAS to repent and rescue the LBS. In fewer words, it is the needy, grovelling, pushy sharing of feelings in which the LBS still feels entitled to having WAS have the feelings the LBS wants the WAS to have that is problematic. (Oh well, not fewer words, lol.)
It sounds like you were in a place where you could really share yourself and your true feelings while remaining somewhat detached. You weren't making your emotions about WAS, you weren't basing them on how he might react to them in any way. You were honest and open and not trying to get anything from him. This is both more intimate AND less needy. You were able to be more authentic and hold onto yourself.
I love it when OT pops in, she has a such a way of summing things up that a wordy person like myself can never do! That post, in and of itself, really is the essence of it all. Perfect.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
First - I didn't realize that Crohn's disease was being considered as a diagnosis. If he has chronic abdominal pain, he should definitely be tried on a gluten-free diet:
Ellie,
Yes, the last time he was in the hospital (in January 07 for the abdominal pain & infection) the doctors told him that Crohn's is considered; they also told him from the little they know, that since he keeps having infections/flare-ups so often, he will most likely need surgery to remove a part of his intestine. However, they need to do the colonoscopy. Since his hospital stays last summer, he has postponed each appointment due to one drama or another (root canal, snowy weather, suicide threat, then car accident)....they can't make any diagnosis until he has that done, at the very least. To my knowledge, he has yet to reschedule another one.....
Quote:
Of course, right now he may have abdominal pains any time he withdraws from the pain pills, since narcotics addicts have a lot of cramping and pain when they go through withdrawal
This is good info to have, I didn't know that. And thank you for the link to the gluten free diet. I did read a little of it, haven't passed it on to SO as of yet. He tends to shrug everything off....which leads me to this:
Quote:
I don't blame you for being fed up. If you can do anything to get him clean, though - even if you plan to leave - it will be better for your kids to have a sober dad.
I don't know. I don't think "I" can do that. I grew up with an alcoholic father who lived by the bottle and indirectly died by the bottle (shot & killed by a drinking buddy in a murder/suicide)...In the 17 years I lived at home with him, the one thing I learned is you cannot help someone who does not want to be helped. The whole leading the horse to water thing. I can't force SO to get help - of any kind. Whether it is for his medical conditions, mental conditions - whatever. I've witnessed over & over again. He'll ask me for my opinion, and when I tell him, if it doesn't agree with his opinion, he disregards it. And yet, someone else can give him the very same information that I do, and he'll listen to them.
And this example just recently came up when him & I were discussing his session with the therapist. I've known there was something "not right" with his mind for awhile and knowing his childhood (mother leaving at age 8, finding out he was the product of his mothers affair with her boss) - I've always stated to him that those negative incidents impacted him drastically. He's always shrugged it off. Now, he tells me that OW and therapist have told him that very same thing. So, you have "me" who's been suggesting this to him for at least 5 years, probably more - and "my" theories have no bearing on him. Now someone else tells him the very same thing.
Sometimes I wonder, does he view me as some kind of "mother" figure? He'll ask for my advice and when I give it, disregard it. And yet, if my advice, suggestions, opinions - whatever, turn out to be accurate, then he says "NM, you're always right". But he says it in a BAD way. Like he HATES the fact that "HE" was wrong and "I" was right. (I'm having a difficult time explaining this.) He doesn't like to be wrong - ever, about anything. And he likes it even less when I turn out to be right. And because I can sense that, sometimes I just keep my opinions/advice to myself. He's an adult, I don't want treat him like one of my children, but sometimes that's how it feels. And I don't want to be viewed "that" way by him. I hope I'm making some sense here.
Again - the drug use. Since we talked about how I feel he's addicted, plus the mixing in of the Valium - he has not taken anymore. He's also backed off taking so many of the painkillers (been watching the bottle). Of course, I'm glad he's not taking them. And I'm glad he listened to me, don't take it the wrong way. But I think it makes him feel kind of inferior to me. And like a stubborn, rebellious child, he'll do the opposite of what he knows is right just to prove me wrong. And yes, this way of thinking is NOT the normal way an adult should think. But, then again, he's got some of kind of personality disorder, so it's one damned vicious circle.
Quote:
I love it when OT pops in, she has a such a way of summing things up that a wordy person like myself can never do! That post, in and of itself, really is the essence of it all. Perfect.
Hi, Rob. Me, too! OT's my hero! And thanks for checking in w/ me. Whenever I see your comments, I always picture you snorting those twizzlers out of your nose a couple of months back. Great visual. LMAO
Quote:
I hope things even out for you soon. What an incredibly rough patch! It sounds as though your conversation with SO was actually very good. And, BTW, I don't think that there is anything anti-DB about reporting what is going on with you directly.
The thing to avoid is sharing feelings when it is all about trying to get WAS to respond in a particular way. Crying to get WAS to "get it" or feel guilty, declaring true love over and over again, trying to get WAS to repent and rescue the LBS. In fewer words, it is the needy, grovelling, pushy sharing of feelings in which the LBS still feels entitled to having WAS have the feelings the LBS wants the WAS to have that is problematic. (Oh well, not fewer words, lol.)
OT - thank you. The one thing I am very guilty of is never wanting to look like an a$$hole - to anyone, not just SO. My own personal fear is being viewed as weak; letting someone know they've hurt me. So I will allow myself to be seen as angry when actually deeply hurt; viewed as a b!tch when it's really shyness; being funny when inside I'm sad.
I will go to great lengths to hide my inner feelings when I think it's going to show weakness on my part. It's taken me a long time to be able to understand that about myself. I have been trying to overcome that. Unfortunately, this whole thing with SO has been the catalyst in discovering that about myself. So, sometimes I can't always change what I know about myself because I don't think it's conducive to the situation. So, in my case, I think I'm more of the opposite. I don't threaten or issue ultimatums; I don't try to push someone to do something they don't want to do. I don't try to push myself on SO. But I have begun to feel very tired of keeping what I feel inside.
There was an episode of Seinfeld that I always think of. The one where Kramer answers the movie phone. George keeps pushing buttons and Kramer can't decipher what movie he's talking about. So Kramer says: "why don't you just tell me what movie you want to see."
When SO is relentlessly questioning me & my feelings (or vice versa), I always run that line through my head. "WHY DON'T YOU JUST TELL ME WHAT YOU WANT." The two of us have had such difficult communication problems thoughtout our entire R (look where it's gotten us); each of us veiling our true feelings to the other, that anymore I just try to find a way to say what I have to say clearly and directly. Without any expectations; without trying to lay guilt; without trying to push for what "I" want. And it's really not very easy for me. Especially since I do know a lot of SO's triggers; I know how to lay guilt and I know how to coerce him into getting what I want (about certain things, anyway.)
I don't know what's best for this situation. Staying, leaving. Factor in SO's debilitating fear of abandonment and inability to make decisions regarding personal relationships... If I leave him, is that just compunding the abandonment issue? He's not forcing me move out now. Instead he wants ME to make the decision as to whether to stay or go. And I think that if I make the decision, isn't that kind of enabling him? Or rather, if I move out, then he once again gets off the hook about making his own decisions and postpones facing his problems.
I know, I know - OT, I can hear you now - I need to make decisions about MY life and the kids lives without worrying about SO. I just don't know which decision is the best. At this point, I am so damned confused about everything. I can wake up each morning and can always find new hope to carry on. But should I? I soemtimes HATE the hope that I find; hate my optimism. I sometimes wish that I just didn't give a damn. I wish that I could shut my mind off and stop seeing all different sides to the story because it only confuses me. I wish I could just stop being so understanding. Stop understanding that I know this isn't all about me. Stop understanding that SO's issues are varied and deep and he may FINALLY face those issues. Like that bald woman said several years ago "stop the madness!!" LOL
Oh, and BTW, SO & OW are back in touch with each other. And, he's supposed to have court tomorrow, re: stalking, harrassment & restraining order. As far as I'm aware, I believe that any contact OW has with him should negate those charges. But, her mother is also listed in the paperwork. And I don't think Mommy knows that her daughter is back in touch with SO.
And, I must admit, the devious part of me would really love to see OW get herself arrested for violating her own RO.
)... He was released from the hospital on Saturday and is home now; actually doing very well. 
