Or, she leaves him partly out of some twisted desire to see what he would do with himself without her by his side and finds he is functioning fairly well without her. Maybe finding some hot new thing to date. The world did not crumble around him and she decides she really does love him and wants to try again.
I hope that my H would find a hot new thing to date if I left him. I want him to have a hot sex life with or without me. I care for the man after all and I truly wish that everyone on the planet even Rush Limbaugh could have a hot sex life. If my H could better get his groove on with some other woman that would be great. For instance, if he decides that my boundary stating that I am only willing to keep my weight within the healthy guidelines of the surgeon general is bullsh*t and he wants someone really thin, more power to him! All my former feelings of possessiveness are way out the window.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Well, my comment was on the heels of NJ’s comment:
That joy juice pump is an essential part of you and yours to keep and treasure. The problem is not that you have a JJP, it's that you activate it to full blast in response to negative crap from your H.
I was actually thinking that you turn on the JJP full blast not just to negative crap, but to any situation where you have hopes of getting male attention, like when you set your mind on seducing that 20 year old. Though I know we are playing a game here, the impression I got was whoa…. Mojo can really turn up the jets when she catches a whiff of maleness in the air. That sudden jump of assertiveness puts you in the top position very quickly, and if we were to take this game into reality, I would feeling like I have to top your top.
Now that may not be all bad, and I think I could throw you down like a rag doll and ravage you till you’re black and blue, but I’m not sure your prima donna H wants to have that pressure (well, if you call it pressure). So when you mentioned somewhere back in this thread that you weren’t sure how to be less assertive, maybe this would be an example.
I was also trying to understand what I was feeling from your quick, thorough and seemingly serious contract proposal. I think I was feeling a little off-balance. I also suspect you may have been feeling very much on-balance and in control. So I wonder if maybe this sexual aggression you show is really another form of defense. It is a strange one, to be sure. Most women use defenses to avoid the intimacy of sex, but I get the feeling you use sex to avoid intimacy. Could it be that the quicker you can jump to the act, the lower the possibility of rejection and hurt? In other words, rejection usually comes about before sex occurs. By jumping straight into sex, you short circuit this possibility, and if you can get the guy aroused, the chance of rejection falls to nearly zero. So you feel safe and connected. So in this perverse way, could you be using sex to avoid the rejection of sex?
Now that may not be all bad, and I think I could throw you down like a rag doll and ravage you till you’re black and blue, but I’m not sure your prima donna H wants to have that pressure (well, if you call it pressure). So when you mentioned somewhere back in this thread that you weren’t sure how to be less assertive, maybe this would be an example.
ROTFLMAO- Very good. The posts from the men on my thread the last few days have been very instructive to me. At first I was very confused by BF's assertion that I was trying to "test" men by getting them to "top my top". It was confusing to me because that's not how it feels to me. To me it feels more like I'm doing the man a favor by "priming his pump". So I thought about it some more and I realized that if a man was in denial or out of touch with the link between his sexuality and aggression then he would react badly to such behavior from me because really what I'm doing when I behave in that manner is "taunting" the man into "raping" me. In my mind (or somewhere lower) it is just a ramped up version of playing "naughty". I'm picking a fight that I want to lose just like I'd be committing a transgression for which I wanted to get "punished" if I was playing "naughty". So I am expecting the man to be as much in touch with his "top" as I am with my "bottom" and that's probably asking a lot of a guy because I'm a very "bottomy-bottom" (kind of sounds like I'm a bunny again doesn't it-LOL). Anyway you get a gold "yum" star for your use of "ravage" and "black and blue". I would advise any man who encounters a woman who behaves in this manner to read the Serbian Mock Rape section of The Joy of Sex and go right for her ankles.
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Could it be that the quicker you can jump to the act, the lower the possibility of rejection and hurt? In other words, rejection usually comes about before sex occurs. By jumping straight into sex, you short circuit this possibility, and if you can get the guy aroused, the chance of rejection falls to nearly zero. So you feel safe and connected. So in this perverse way, could you be using sex to avoid the rejection of sex?
Interesting theory. It doesn't "feel" like that to me but who knows. Probably I'm too lazy and easily bored to just hop around waiting for some guy to chase me. Also as I indicated in an earlier post in my experience if you make yourself easy to catch it kills the guy's desire so you really have to do a lot of hopping to get a guy revved up. I guess I just like to "cut to the chase".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
The funny thing is that this is definitely long-time behavior for me. When I was in the Fifth Grade I flirted with my first boyfriend whose last name was MacGregor by playing "The Campbells are Coming" on the piano at the school talent show. He "got it" and asked me out on a "date" shortly afterward. I remember that we also had one "fight" about religion because he was an atheist and I wasn't at the time. My argument was that there must be a god because the religion books were in the non-fiction section of the library.-LOL (I hope my powers of reasoning have improved a bit since then)
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I suppose the purpose of my post is to say Give yourself a break once in a while. And, yes, I'm aware that since that piece of unsolicited advice came from a woman that you will automatically discount it.
Women have taught me about my weak areas more then I ever could have figured out, and gave me the desire to hammer them out. I listen. sometimes. not so she would notice though. It would have been a lot more effective to proactively be protectively jealous, then reactively violently possesive. I cant believe I actually have the words violently possesive attributed to me in this life. Where is the 'reset' button. Damn, Its not working. What do you mean I cant uninstall? I dont like this new OS. Its pretty but really buggy.
I would like to say I never touched her, or wanted to, nor was she ever afraid for herself that way.
you are clearly a nice boy although I do find some of your theories annoying. Annoyingly correct. I know. Trust me, they occasionally annoy me just as much.
I am more functional and differentiated. No lie.-LOL LOL Yes you are. Kudos to your H for dealing with you back then. Your doing really good.
really wish that you would give me a concrete example of how a person can state or get what they want without being assertive. If simply being assertive makes me unfeminine than it s*cks to be a female because I'll never get anything I want in life. If that is the case then I might as well give up on having a relationship with a man and go live alone in my cottage with an orchard.
Gosh, I give give give and you want more. This is a good thing you and HP to work on together. Mrs. Nop can give you ideas, and Corri is having a lot of fun with it too. you can be assertive and self protective without being dominating or retaliatory. Your not dominating with your H. Trying that will not be congruent. You just need to stand still and stick up for yourself. Have a couple glasses of red wine, if you want to.
I hope that you understood that the "ask" goes both ways in my analogy. If I as an adult woman ... A contract is an agreement and an agreement is two people "asking" and "answering".
applesauce and cheers. you have to learn how to ask then if the other is not answering. Just like HDM do. and BTW, I know you are a courteous and open lover.
he decides that my boundary stating that I am only willing to keep my weight within the healthy guidelines of the surgeon general is bullsh*t and he wants someone really thin, more power to him! one thing important about giving someone else boundaries is being able to accept theres without personalizing. If he wants you to be unhealthy thats up to you to set a boundary. I seriously doubt that though.
I agree 100%. LD men have nothing in common with HD men. What this means is that the HD woman/LD man problem must be approached in a completely different fashion. LD men are more like LD women then anything else.
I talked with my H this morning about some of the issues I brought up in my "contract". I wasn't planning on it but the opportunity presented itself. We were eating breakfast and my H was just sitting there all sullen and then he said "I feel like cr*p". I didn't say anything but my thought to myself was a mildly annoyed "What's new?". So we just sat there uncomfortably for a while. Eventually a convo started and my H made the comment "You aren't much of a counselor." which gave me the opportunity to say in really a very kind manner "I'm not your counselor. I'm your wife.". The convo continued and at some point I said something like "I would appreciate it if you would do a better job taking care of yourself so that you could do a better job meeting my needs/wants as your wife." and I brought up some of the contract stuff but not in a laundry list sort of way. More like I was trying to convey that this stuff would make me happy not THESE ARE MY DEMANDS. My H went sort of ballistic when I said something like "Maybe you want to consider yourself a failure in order to avoid your fear of failure." (channeling LP)in response to some completely negative self-esteem remark of his but mostly the convo was low key and on an adult level. However, I wouldn't exactly call it a success. My H pretty much stated that what I wanted was reasonable and I deserved it but he wouldn't be able to provide it because of his crappy state of being. The low point of the convo IMO was when he said "You know nobody is going to give you a medal for staying with me.". Nothing was resolved and for the rest of the day we interacted with each other with a mix of kindness and depression.
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you are clearly a nice boy although I do find some of your theories annoying. Annoyingly correct. I know. Trust me, they occasionally annoy me just as much.
No some are wrong. Especially the one where you think that I am consistently sexual in my marriage because my H is so sexy. I have never turned a guy down for sex in any relationship that I've been in except for practical reasons. It's all me. Which of course proves that your theories about ME are probably correct (sigh).
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You just need to stand still and stick up for yourself.
Well, I don't know how well I did. I think I erred on the side of falling back into my "enabler mother" mode. I really am having a hard time figuring out what feminine persona should be "asking" for what I want.
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one thing important about giving someone else boundaries is being able to accept theres without personalizing. If he wants you to be unhealthy thats up to you to set a boundary. I seriously doubt that though.
I get this. I didn't really think this was the case I was just using it as an example. I'm really not quite as fixated on the weight issue as it might seem I just use it as an example because it is so concrete compared to other issues.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Your H is SOOOO much like mine. He too has a type 2 mother.
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I don't know how far back you've read in my history but every sexual agreement that I have tried to make with him he has broken. He is willing to commit to nothing.
No sh!t. Of course he hasn't, he has never had to since the day his mum told him to hang his coat on the hook and he got away with pretending he couldn't. Again my H is exactly the same way he has broken every agreement we have ever made that requires him to step up to the plate in some way.
The problem with having a type 2 for a mother is that it never requires the person to find out what they are capable of and it leaves their self esteem in their boots. My DD5 is a manipulative little miss who loves to cry and create a drama and say she can't. When she behaves that way I tell her she can go and stand in the utility room for a while and then decide if she can or can't. It usually turns out she can. When my kids climb trees and then cry for help coming out of the tree I say "you climbed in, you can climb out" they weep, they moan, they get angry with me and call me names, they act like they are just about to lose their grip and tumble (4 feet) to their deaths. I hang out somewhere roughly near the tree saying things like "I know you can do it - there's a branch about an inch below your foot reach down for it". They come out of the tree and run off skipping with happy smiles on their faces. I don't feel a need to be their hero or rescuer by lifting them down out of the tree and nothing gives me greater pleasure than the fact they skip off AWAY from me to carry on enjoying their fun-packed little lives. I can well imagine Mojo that your have been exactly the same way with your own kids.
So why can't we do it with our H's? Because this kind of manipulative behaviour in an adult is alien to us, and therefore we don't see it for what it is, we kind of believe there really must be something wrong for a grown man to be acting that way. When your H acts like he will starve to death if you don't leave him dinner in a crockpot he is ACTING LIKE A 3 YEAR OLD. Next time your H is stuck up that tree resist the urge to lift him down, maybe even give the tree a bit of a shake (he he he).
You're a type 7, I'm a type 9 with strong 7 tendencies (it's my 2nd highest score and by the narrowest of margins). I believe these type 4 guys who were brought up by type 2 mums were attracted to us precisely because of our non-2-ness. Because they know deep down that that is what they really need, they really need someone who trusts them to climb out of the tree on their own. But under stress they just can't help reverting back to the whiny little 3 year old that needs his type 2 mummy. And they can be REALLY convincing. Your H's suicide threats are precisely in this modus operandi.
The reason my kids make their way out of the tree fine is not because I ignore them. It is because I convey my firm belief that they CAN do it - so they do. I have been shifting my attitude of late to my H, I got past the enabling stage a while back, and then I went into indifferent mode, but now I working on being in firm belief mode and that seems to be working better.
Next time you go to an evening sale, leave the house without worrying about dinner, when H moans just turn to him, smile and say I'm sure you'll be fine.
That is what your (and my) H need to hear more than anything else complete faith in their ability to be fine.
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My H pretty much stated that what I wanted was reasonable and I deserved it but he wouldn't be able to provide it because of his crappy state of being.
That's his tree. Leave him to climb out of it on his own.
take care
Fran
p.s. Anytime you want to come and visit the gardens of England let me know we can go round them together and then come back to my place for afternoon tea (or gin whichever )
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Again my H is exactly the same way he has broken every agreement we have ever made that requires him to step up to the plate in some way
I dont believe this. In fact, I know its not true from what you have told us.
The reason my kids make their way out of the tree fine is not because I ignore them. It is because I convey my firm belief that they CAN do it - so they do. I have been shifting my attitude of late to my H, I got past the enabling stage a while back, and then I went into indifferent mode, but now I working on being in firm belief mode and that seems to be working better.
Mojo
The low point of the convo IMO was when he said "You know nobody is going to give you a medal for staying with me.". Its not a low point its an opportunity. Mojo: yes they will. My kids give me a medal for it everyday, and I give myself a medal. You get a big red 'F' for being nice though. Im going to buy myself something pretty, and Im Not doing the dishes. Bye.
I'm really not quite as fixated on the weight issue as it might seem I just use it as an example because it is so concrete compared to other issues. I believe you. It is easy with the concrete stuff. 'Oh you want me to make more money. Ok. done' ' Oh you want me to spend more time with you. Ok. done' 'Oh you want to to stop being mean. Ok done'
'Oh you want me to act like a man.... Um. (head scratch) uh ... but look, I did all that other stuff you wanted... '
Your doing really good. 
)