Mojo I completely agree with you about the preferable and the should be part of it. I completely agree with you and cobra about your opinion of me. There is a balance. So I am all for appealing to the woman instead of the girl, but you wont appeal to the woman if you cant appeal to a girl.

When you H bit you on the leg, what was he appealing too?

Well, I think that you and I would be on the same page answering this question but in recent years when I asked my H why he did that he said "I was just being playful, not sexual.".

I didnt ask what he was doing or his opinion. I was asking what he appealed to in you. That being said, Ive 'biten' and had a great reaction, and Ive 'biten' and had a bad reaction. I dont really care. I dont have to do it, I just like to check out the reaction. Either way, it doesnt matter to me.
GEL does not like to be tickled. It really irritates her.

all women scream and say stop when you tickle them though.

Chromos wife goes into a sexually unhinged state when he tickles her. It makes her feel her body/ feel owned by her body. I would guess that that out of control place makes her fearful/angry. She doesnt want him to have that power over her.
Shes not screaming at chromo, shes screaming in an attempt to override her body acting without her.

Who does a man tell the differance and more importantly how does he make her feel safe enough to go there with him?

Let's say that I am a HD woman who is fully sexual and fully aware of my desire to be dominated sexually.
yes. You own your body and are not afraid to go there. You love there. You dont feel lost, you feel empowered.

LFL said I just don't think the "throwdown" technique will work right after GGB just said it did work. just because she has a boundary, or a wall, or a fear in another area lets not lump it all together. I would really like to hear the specifics of what happened and more importantly his reaction to it. Its obvious he is working on it though.

The behavior that makes a woman horny is not the behavior that will make her a reliable pair-bonded sex partner. If you "tell" a woman to have sex with you, you are appealing to her "bottom" desire. I appreciate where you are going with this. The whole post gave me a flicker of hope. If your trying to help me with my issues, thank you, much appreciated, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Whoever originally we were not talking about sex specifically. so Its really a irrelevant point. We were talking about attractive masculinity in general. If you arent attractive you cant appeal to the woman.

"Tell" a girl to have sex with you but "Ask" a woman because as she reaches inside herself for the "Yes" she will be responding to you in a way that is more healthy and whole because she will be responding to the "pilgrim soul" in you, not just the man and that is the sort of sexual response that will last a lifetime.
 Yes. very nice. sounds a lot like choice to me.

Big sister. And you are in major denial about the other stuff. Ok. big sister. never had one but I would still have pushed you down in the mud. Doubtful about the denial, im more brutal with myself then anyone.

True intimacy and vulnerability require no test. They only require honesty an self knowledge without delusion. Life is not a dress rehearsal. Its a test everyday. Honesty and self knowledge sound delightful. your sitch demonstrates on both sides that intimacy requires a HUGE test.

just another way of protecting himself from getting hurt, then justifying it as weakness on the part of the woman because she couldn’t pass some test. yes it most certainly is.
I can be as picky as I want. protection is a part of well being. as mojo is telling me, the 'girls' that become enamored are not viable mates. the ones that dislike my 'do nothing' Im not man enough for. Lets not talk about my issues. Lets talk about garnering respect and attraction from y'alls mates.

GGB (I've told her I'd have to tie her up and bring her to an 'O', to which she's replied that if I tied her up it would be the last time I'd ever see her nekid).


pretty over the top reaction to a little bit of play dont you think? I wonder why that would be.
how have you approached it? have you tried something like
GGB: (dead serious) Really. ....... ....... You would [i]never[/] have sex with me again, because I wanted to play around and try something differant. Is that what you are saying? Wow. huh. (ponder and let it go)
Id be happy to discuss differant ides, (and hear womens opinions) if you want to discuss this more.

He was trying to pierce my illusion that things were okay by letting me know that things weren't okay with him. The problem for me was that there was no way for me to "fix" what wasn't okay with him and therefore no way for me to restore the "happy family life" that I wanted. So my H got what he wanted in terms of rendering me more vulnerable because I, of course, responded by crying but the interaction actually decreased our intimacy or it maybe it made him feel more intimate with me because now I was unhappy too but it made me want to distance myself because I wanted to be happy This is exactly the verbal exchange x and I had that invalidated her. the specifics are the differant but its exactly the same. she was seeking trust and I wouldnt give it. She didnt get over it. I wanted reality and she wanted lala land. she felt hopeless. (severe invalidation)
If I didnt trust her there was no point. I believed one thing, she didnt want me too, I did anyways, ....and so she proved me right.

OTOH, I don't think that I should take BFs advice and act LD just to get what I want
I did not say that. I said you should be authentic. I didnt say act LD and neither should you act HD when you are not appreciating his behavior toward you. You have tremendous Value. own it and take care of it. I didnt say tell him 'no'. When I went thru a period where I was absolutely sick of having sex with x, I didnt tell her no. I didnt invalidate, and I didnt martyr. I was still not enthused. I dont know how you come off, IRL, but sometimes you come off here, as just wanting sex for sex. I understand, nothing wrong with that. but that could make your H feel insignificant, if its chronic and you make verbal remarks in that same vein.


I learned to MB when I was 12 or 13 by reading a book on female sexuality that my Mom left around the house and did it regularly about 2 or 3x a week
x learned when she was 10, on her own, with no books. she MB everyday after that.

The fact that you were ready to lose your virginity at 15 is neither abnormal nor a surprise. Thats slightly above the 'normal' marrying age thruout human history. Thinking people magically become adults at 18, accountable for their actions, old enough to legally fck (depending on the state of course), able to die for their country, but not old enough to drink is the most asinine set of contradictory impositions.

If I do let my little joy juice pump work I can put some of the energy into things like learning how to make pickles or taking long hikes or designing/digging a catfish pond but if I think about my body at all I will want sex

While I dont think cemar would choose pickle making, Im sure he knows exactly what you mean.