I was holding off to hear NOP’s comments, but Chrome mentioned something we have discussed here before.
But the truth is I would like to be able to apply DB principles in my life, and let the OM get jealous and controlling.
Perhaps what is needed is for you wife to see YOU get jealous and a little controlling. You have a loooooong way to go before this problem is resolved. At some point the spotlight is going to be squarely on YOU and what you did to contribute to the conditions that caused your wife to feel she had no alternative that to seek out an affair. I see affairs as nothing more than a cry for attention, though a pretty destructive way of crying.
I’ve been in your shoes long ago, in college, and I know how much it can hurt. But I was as responsible for creating the conditions at that time as she was for cheating on me. I see no benefit in thinking that your wife should see the other man get jealous over YOUR wife!! Why would you want her to see this? You are the one who should be hopping mad, not him! There is a lot more to this theme and it may be a major issue for you to come to terms with.
Do you think I should push for an immediate separation if she is not clearly ending the affair?
What is your purpose, to cut off your nose to spite your face? This is going down the path of vengeance. Its OK to feel it, even express it, but try not to act on it.
One last comment, following up on Chrome’s statement about GEL (GreenEyedLass). I do not recall at any time GEL telling her H that she did not like him. She made a very clear distinction between loving him but hating his behavior. In that way, she did not alienate him and I think she was able to show him that she was on his side and THEY were able to deal with his problem as a TEAM (anybody listening out there?)
My normal internet connection is down, and I am on an unreliable dialup connection temporarily.
I will get back to you later today when my main connection is back up.
In the mean time, chew on this; YOU DID GOOD!!
Don't do anything rash yet. Let's talk over some options.
Hold on, the ride gets bumpy from here, but it is manageable.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Do you think I should push for an immediate separation if she is not clearly ending the affair?
What is your purpose, to cut off your nose to spite your face? This is going down the path of vengeance
Thanks Chromosphere and Cobra for pointing out my flawed thinking. This just goes to show how unclear my thought process is right now.
I guess I might need to rephrase the question. For several weeks now, my wife has been expressing the need to be on her own for awhile. To get an apartment and "figure out what she wants in life". Of course, I see that pondering as including "who she wants in her life" too. I would prefer that she not choose a separation, but my current messed up thinking is going something like this:
If I ask for an immediate separation in two days, (rather than having her take weeks or months contemplating when and where) might she fear that she is about to lose everything we've shared for 20 years and be more motivated to end the affair? Or will it push her to her OM for comfort? That is the question that only my W could decide.
If she does want to separate, then maybe a contract separation with time for us to carefully craft an understanding is a better choice.
I think you might be on to something about me not being more jealousyly outraged. I have for too long taken my wife for granted because I assumed the vows we exchanged were a guarantee that she would always be my side. Naive to the extreme - I know.
Perhaps I do need to show more competitve zeal, in fighting to keep her. I'll stay off the soy products and sharpen my foils with aplomb.
Me 46 WAW 45 M 21 yrs
WAW: "I need to be alone" 12/06 W moves out 3/07 Mediation finalized 08/08
Thanks Chromosphere and Cobra for pointing out my flawed thinking. This just goes to show how unclear my thought process is right now.
Please don't mistake the timbre of my post. I echo NOPkins in saying you did an excellent job. I just wanted to give you different perspectives to think about, that you can choose to act on or disregard as not being relevant.
Your comments about how your W was already seemingly pushing for a separation and how it could cause this situation to play out are on the mark. I personally think you are thinking more clearly than most would if put in a similar situation.
Quote:
If I ask for an immediate separation in two days, (rather than having her take weeks or months contemplating when and where) might she fear that she is about to lose everything we've shared for 20 years and be more motivated to end the affair? Or will it push her to her OM for comfort? That is the question that only my W could decide.
My opinion on this, if you don't want a separation, don't push for one. If you want her to end the affair and piece your marriage back together, that is what you should focus on. If her continuing in the affair is a "deal breaker" for you, then go for a separation and/or divorce. I'm personally opposed to using D or S as a threat to achieve some other goal. And if it does happen that threatening a separation does "push her" toward OM, you are now in a worse position if you truly do want to repair the M.
Quote:
Perhaps I do need to show more competitve zeal, in fighting to keep her. I'll stay off the soy products and sharpen my foils with aplomb.
Zeal towards a building a strong M is always good. Tally-ho!
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I will get back to you later today when my main connection is back up.
In the mean time, chew on this; YOU DID GOOD!! Don't do anything rash yet. Let's talk over some options.
Thank you NOPkins! I am very happy with how I handled it all. I think it was due to the great coaching I've been getting.
I will do nothing rash - I still have about 27 hours until the counseling session where I can ask questions. The book you recommended has a great section on getting to the facts in the chapter "The Story of the Affair".
After counseling I will look to my heart, to G_D and my guides, and to my DB friends for guidance.
Me 46 WAW 45 M 21 yrs
WAW: "I need to be alone" 12/06 W moves out 3/07 Mediation finalized 08/08
I'm so sorry to read what the last few days have been like for you. You have handled things well as far as I can tell. I personally think it was a good sign that your wife stayed with you and didn't try to contact OM right away. I've inserted a website that has an article by Frank Pittman on the different types of affairs. It might be useful to see if any of these types fit your situation. My xH's affair was the "romantic" infidelity for what it's worth.
As far as how to handle the OM, I think you probably have to wait and see what comes out Tuesday night and decide from there. Otherwise it seems premature because you don't really know what you're dealing with.
Cobra's point of view on jealousy is interesting. I think we're talking about different aspects of jealousy. What you don't want to be is jealous in the way of being weak, needy, controlling, a bit scary in your "need" for her, etc. But being angry (hopping mad) and stating strongly that you won't share her is different than jealous in my Point of view. Michelle writes about the jealous behavior in her book.
For full disclosure, I happen to be someone that almost completely agrees with Michelle's approach. While I don't think it is comprehensive in that there are many additional philosophies and techniques that would be complementary, I do think it is a solid framework for preventing divorce IF that is your #1 priority.
It sounds like NOP, unfortunately, has some experience that will be helpful to you once you know where things are with you and your wife and OM.
Regardless of what comes out Tuesday night, it won't be an easy time for you so make sure you take care of yourself throughout this time. Like they say, put your own oxygen mask on first before helping others!!
Good Luck
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
LG, you're getting some good advice here. Don't be rash. Don't push for anything. Sit tight and let her stew a bit. If you don't want a divorce or separation, then don't make it happen and don't facilitate. This is not about punishing her. This is about removing the buffers and making HER face the consequences of her actions.
You don't have to be ugly. Be civil and kind-- but be very clear that if there is to be a D, SHE will have to make it happen and that you will NOT be friends with her after. Take the moral high ground, by all means. But let HER be the one to do the hard work of breaking up this marriage. Don't rush anything. She has a lot to think about.
BTW, I add my "bravo" also.
Greeneyed Lass's husband did not have an affair. He was viewing internet porn and emailing some people on adultfriendfinder. All the while he was NOT very interested in sex with her.
LG I was hoping you would have gather evidence for a little while longer before letting her know you were on to something but I understand why you acted.
Another poster waited about a week before confronting the spouse. The poster had more evidence and saw a bigger part of a pattern so had almost all the "goods" on the SO when the confronting took place. IE, the SO had no place to hide.
I used to work in a group home for delinquent boys and we had to snoop. Sometimes it is the only way you can now the truth. Even if the person in question confesses, they confess in their own way, and you get their version, with some facts left out so you sometimes never know the whole truth.
Sometimes, I think it is beneficial to snoop but not react to the evidence, and don't borrow evidence or make worst cases of what you discover. I think the saying "the simplest explanation is usually correct" is the way to go for now.
Nop has a nose for situations like this, more than I do, but I have seen acting on very thin evidence back-fire and saw cases of letting some things play-out work very well.
Best wishes to you man of steel. I am supporting you and your efforts even when I don't post.
First off, there are no magic bullets. You are going to have to make some changes to yourself and make them quickly. Your wife will need to see that you are serious about addressing your issues in the marriage. You can't just tell her, demonstrate it.
Your wife is going to have legitimate issues with you and the marriage. She will also try to blame you for her choices. You need to accept your part of the contribution to the current condition of the marriage. You did not, however, cause her to have an affair.
Drop your art for now and get a job to provide some immediate income
Don't separate from your wife unless you have no choice. Separation will just make it easier for her to continue the affair. Likewise, no one expects you to absorb the disrespect of her continuing the affair while living with you. Regardless, you may have to eat some of this unpleasantness for a while in order to prove your intentions to your wife.
"Wife, I am ready, willing and able to address any issue in our relationship in order to continue our marriage."
Don't have unprotected sex with your wife, no matter how overwhelming the emotion, or how compelling the moment. You simply don't know where she has been or what she has been exposed to. You marriage is important, but it is not worth dying for in my opinion.
Eat. This is very important. Your appetite is probably already gone.
Exercise. It will help you to deal with the stress.
Quote: -------------------------------------------------------- My intuition is telling me that if she verbally agrees to end the relationship with OM, that I would ask to participate in composing an e-mail with her to OM ending the relationship, or listening in on a phone call to her OM ending the affair. --------------------------------------------------------
You both write a snail-mail letter, make an email copy and send both to the other man. I have some guidelines for the letter, but we will get to that later.
The issue of trust is addressed by your wife becoming an open book to you.
You will need to apply the DB principles that apply to your situation. Don't expect the other man to get grabby or needy right off the bat. Don't expect miracles.
Let's take one thing at a time. Right now, you need to find out what she will willingly divulge about the affair, and what she is willing to do about it. That will determine your course of action. In the mean time, fix your known issues.
I have some additional resources I can provide you if you like. You can contact me at dufellow2003@yahoo.com and I will get you fixed up.
Eat.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Damn, LG, I am mightily impressed. I freaking LOVE how you whipped out the NOT "Just Friends" book at the perfect time!! (I have that book and it is peppered with a zillion post-it flags)
\o/\o/\o/ Three cheers for you!
And I sure could have used NOPkins last year, during my H's A. Cheers to him as well.
I offer no advice, as you've received some great stuff here. Be strong, hang on, and do not go gentle into that good night. Looking forward to what is revealed in the counseling session tomorrow. You have much support from your cheering section!
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
