Afterall....This IS my Life III

[heatherg]

Cobra, I have no idea if your apology was genuine or not. If it was, I accept it. Regardless, we'll just move on.

Burgbud, I like what you posted...forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past. How long am I going to hope for a better past....hmm. A good question for which I have no good answer. Prior to my mistake, I used to say I tried to live my life so that I would have no regrets. Now regret has such a hold on me, I don't know if I'll ever feel completely good about myself again.

We met at a bookstore and she fell apart emotionally, and gave me the Im not sure spiel. No sh!t. Thats why we were getting a D, cause she didnt know what she wanted. It was not my fault-- at all-- that she didnt know what she wanted. It was not my responsibility, I had given her the most powerful thing. Choice.

Do you mean she didn't know if she wanted to be with you or OM? Did you make it clear to her that you still wanted to be with her? Just tell me if you don't want to answer any more of my questions, I'm just interested. Over what length of time did all of this take place?

When I say bad though, I mean bad.

I'm quite certain I understand what you mean.

[Burgbud]

What about that statement is not true? I cant think of anything truer then acknowledging another persons right to choice and accepting their boundaries.

You're striving. Why doesn't she tell him he never has to treat her decently ever again? What about that statement wouldn't be just as true as the statement about kissing?

Let me phrase it in terms you're partial to...is telling her H he doesn't have to kiss her ever again congruent for her?

I certainly hope your not going to take up your sniper position again.

Your hope doesn't much concern me.

I will be happy to snipe right back in hopes for her M.

Oh no! Blackfoot's going to snipe right back!!

If you'd like to snipe at me directly, my email is: [e-mail].

[NOPkins]

Hi, heather.

Quote:
--------------------------------
I'd just like to say, that is not always true
--------------------------------

Don't take offense at what is being discussed on LG's thread.

You are right, in a small percentage of cases, the infidel comes completely clean. It is, unfortunately, the exception rather than the rule.

From my vantage point in helping LG, I have to prepare him for the most likely scenario.

I am glad that you were and still are, an exception to the rule and an exceptional person.

All the best,
-NOPkins-

[Walking]

Hey Heather

I've just caught up on your thread and I congratulate you.

I have always thought you were a brave woman and had loads of respect for you to try to save your marriage in the face of such animosity from your H. He has always struck me as somewhat of a mysoginist who really needs to grow up.

I understand how you'd like to save your marriage for the sake of your family - but really, you have deserved a better chance than he's been willing to give you for the past couple of years.

I'm not up to the kind of analysis that goes on in this forum, but it strikes me that your decision to seperate/divorce, bearing in mind the issues you've had to take into account, is a tribute to your growth as a woman and your ability, even during this tough time, to develop yourself and do that which is right and good for you.

You deserve a husband who loves you. You deserve a husband who respects you. You deserve a good and fulfilling life. You've beaten yourself up for long enough - it's time to lighten up, brush yourself off and get on with the joy of raising your children and living your life. It's time to make your life the best life it can be.

Your kids deserve to experience the things you bring into their life, rather than a half approach which will only expose them to those things their father considers they should be exposed to.

I've read well meaning men telling you the same things over and over again for 2 years about how you don't get your husband, you're making yourself into a victim - you've done this and you've done that .... get over it. Get over the 'if he will forgive me, I will forgive myself' chicken or egg scenario, get over the drama of this whole thing and get on with it.

You are a great woman and a great mum. Time to trust yourself. You've been too long in this twilight zone.

You are going to be fantastic.

Take care,

PS. BBurg - what are you doing hanging around over here? Aren't you getting a life or something? I've lost your e-mail address, but I'd love to catch up.

Cheers

[Burgbud]

Blackfoot,

I apologize for my sarcasm. It would have been more direct and better if I'd simply said that the notion of you hanging around this thread to keep me in my place doesn't concern me.

I don't know what to make of the fact that you seem to think it would. Probably best for me just to let it go.

[Cobra]

Get over the 'if he will forgive me, I will forgive myself' chicken or egg scenario, get over the drama of this whole thing and get on with it.

With friends like that promoting divorce, who needs enemies?

[Burgbud]

Virginia doesn't promote divorce.

[heatherg]

Cobra, do you still agree with this post you wrote to be when I first announced I was separating?

Heather,

Believe it or not, I actually think your decision is a step in the right direction, and good new for you and your H. Couples having really big trouble, who have severe power, control, FOO issues, like yours and mine, may need to reach the point you are now at in order to break the logjam. You know what I have had to go through.

This is a point which I think is TOTALLY lost on this board. Most of the posters here are women who are trying to work things out, making a proactive effort, women who have the sense and rationality to try and understand, negotiate, and change. Many of us have spouses who are the opposite of this and who are not trying to cooperate. For them to mentally reach a turning point means they must come to their own form of understanding one way or another. Usually this means their spouse (the ones posting on this board) reaches a critical decision point. That becomes the tipping point.

Some couples understand the boundary issues, have an unshakable adherence to minimum levels of civility, etc., etc., etc….. and a strong stand by one person can be enough to turn things around. But coming back to your marriage and mine, simple boundaries may NOT be enough, neither you nor your H really understand them nor respect them. Maybe intellectually you do, but you still reserve the right to pull out the big guns whenever you need to, right? I know, my W and I have done it too.

So…. Does this mean your marriage is over???? Compared to other couples, you might think so. You and I are having to dig down to much deeper levels to reach a tipping point. But that is just a reflection of your marriage and should not necessarily be compared to others. But in my opinion, that would be a mistake. The sickness you are feeling, the sense of totally capitulating, is something I think we must all go through before improvements can be made. Now you will KNOW the worst case scenario, not just think about it. So will your H. You are approaching the low point. There is nothing left to fight over. Any concession either of you make will be for the better.

Maybe this is the stick that is needed in your marriage. For so many who post on this board, I never felt that working on yourself only is enough to turn the dynamic around. For semi-functional relationships, yes, I think this can work. But for others, it is not enough. So carry on with what you have to do, even if that means D. But if a ray of light appears somewhere, keep an open mind to what it may mean and do not compare yourself to other marriages. Nothing is over until you decide it is over, and even then, all you have to do is change your mind. The future is not written!

[Cobra]

Heather,

I am convinced that there was no way for you and your H to resolve your marriage without either leaving things as they were for some protracted period of time (yes, even longer that what you have endured) or reaching the point that you both truly evaluate what is important and what is not. It was hard for me to first understand that what I wanted was to be happy, rather than be right. To realize this, I had to get tired of either fighting the fight or come to a full realization of the cost of the continued battle.

At the point of capitulation, you throw out all the ego, the anger, the grudges, and ask yourself what it is you really want. Do you want to be together or not? You have not been able to answer this question until now (and you are still a little shaky about your answer). I am thrilled to see you deciding to sell your truck. That was a huge power play issue long ago, a power play that never had to occur. I think you need to take a hard look inside yourself and determine what changed between then and now that you are willing to sell the truck. Isn’t love what you really want? Isn’t it the most important thing to you? If so, how can you put a price tag on it of only a few thousand dollars from selling the truck?

Neither of you were willing to break the power play. Something needed to change, to break the gridlock and push things off center. Your filing for D seems to have done that for you, though not your H. The one good thing that has come of this is that you seem to be opening your eyes. Pity you couldn’t do that earlier, but that was your lesson to learn all along, wasn’t it?

What NOP is saying to you is to move the current stalemate off center again, in light of the damage that has been done. What you should do now is what you should have done earlier, but remember, you couldn’t see back then.

I agree completely with what I wrote earlier. But that was then and this is now. There has been a sea change occurring (assuming you truly are “seeing” now). Each step of repairing the relationship has its barriers to be overcome. Those comments I wrote were for breaking through your denials and your defenses. You are on a new battlefield now.

[heatherg]

I am convinced that there was no way for you and your H to resolve your marriage without either leaving things as they were for some protracted period of time

....and then ending up right where we were prior to the A, which would have taken another protracted period of time to fix if possible at all.....ok, with you so far.

or reaching the point that you both truly evaluate what is important and what is not

In our own minds, we have each done this. Hence the gridlock and the necessary separation.

At the point of capitulation, you throw out all the ego, the anger, the grudges, and ask yourself what it is you really want.

I feel like I've done this. I'm not angry at H and I don't hold any grudges. I've asked myself what I truly want and I know that it is in fact my H that I want, but I cannot go on living the life we've been living....you see, even if I stayed in that life, I still do not have my H.

I am thrilled to see you deciding to sell your truck. That was a huge power play issue long ago, a power play that never had to occur.

That's crap Cobra. You said yourself back then that if it was going to have a large negative impact on my financial situation, then you could understand why I would refrain. Everything I do isn't a freakin power play.

I think you need to take a hard look inside yourself and determine what changed between then and now that you are willing to sell the truck.

I actually already tried to trade my truck in. Remember? I just should have taken it farther. You can always get more if you sell to a third party, I should have kept trying and I didn't. So, now I'm taking it the rest of the way because Nops has reminded me of why it is so important to do it. For H.

Isn’t love what you really want? Isn’t it the most important thing to you? If so, how can you put a price tag on it of only a few thousand dollars from selling the truck?

That's not fair at all Cobra. Especially coming from the person who wouldn't even put his wife's name on the title of some material possession you guys had, if I recall correctly. Unless of course, you're saying you've learned your lesson and have rectified that plus bought her a 2 ct anniversary ring, because afterall, isn't it love that's most important? Love does NOT equate with money. Period.

Neither of you were willing to break the power play.

I don't like the way this sounds and I don't feel like I've been engaged in power plays, at least not for the sake of feeling powerful. I've been trying to stand up for my rights in this M while simultaneously being repentent for mistakes. That's a very, very difficult thing to do because sometimes the paths to those objectives oppose one another. I've done the best I can and I don't care what you think about that.

Something needed to change, to break the gridlock and push things off center. Your filing for D seems to have done that for you, though not your H. The one good thing that has come of this is that you seem to be opening your eyes. Pity you couldn’t do that earlier, but that was your lesson to learn all along, wasn’t it?

Cobra, I have not come to any stark realizations. I have not 'opened my eyes' because they were never closed! I said that I have found I am more able to act from a place of love when I am doing it out of free will, not because I've been made to feel like I have to in order to get by.

I agree completely with what I wrote earlier. But that was then and this is now. There has been a sea change occurring (assuming you truly are “seeing” now).

Well, if you still agree with what you wrote back then, maybe you weren't 'seeing' either. Maybe none of us are seeing. Maybe we'll all just stumble through this life holding onto our selfish agendas and pulling our little power plays.