Does that relate to my letter at all? I mean, are you saying that perhaps your ex was attempting the same thing, but you weren't buying it
Yes and no. Yes, because all the emotional triggers and reactions are exactly the same. Stig is going thru pretty much the exact same process as me just delayed a few months because his start time was later. I read Burgs sitch and see he had all the same emotions. The outline is always the same. No, becuase you arent x, and Im not your H. She was throwing me tons of woman code, in addition to saying one thing while doing the opposite with her actions. Thats not radical honesty. She was trying to get me to understand something that she had no ability to explain.
Did she ever tell you about OM at all, or clue you in that there were problems? When you say she made a choice, do you mean she made the choice by sleeping with him?
No she never mentioned OM. Why would she say anything to me, when she couldnt admit it to herself? What was she going to tell me, when she didnt know why she felt, she just felt and reacted?
She made a choice long before she ever slept with him. She made a choice when betrrayed herself, and instead of owning what she wanted (OM-- ex. 'yes I want OM. I want a D. We had fun, but your not enough/unable to fill my needs. Goodbye.' Thats congruent.) she choose to be abusive and try to make it my fault for her actions.
Of course she clued me into the fact that there were problems before hand. All women do. Always. Thats there job. A womans biological job is nurturer, helper, companion. Its NOT a secondary position. Its equally as important. But the innate ability that allows a woman to see 1. a good for her mate 2. what he needs to work on so that he is not just good but great
--is exactly the same thing that causes her to fixate on the negative. be icked by the weakness. Does she control it and prove that 'behind every great man is a great woman', or does it control her?
Thats what women do and I simultaneously love them for that and become stressed by it. When we both have crashing insecurities, I dont always have the resources to fix it on her time frame. Likewise she isnt going to have the resources to be 'attracted' to me.
When you are fighting with your woman, you dont have to respond, you should Never react. But you have to listen, and you have to reflect and determine what is her real complaint.
Good luck with that by the way, guys. Its usually not the specifics, it your underlying behavior that led to the specific complaint. You dont have to address it verbally. Make a small change and see if it gets a favorable reaction. 180's. baby step it.
What I had was a goal and a plan.
Sort of winning her back? I mean, without changing who you are, was making yourself as attractive to her as possible your goal?
No. winning her back is seeking. If she didnt want me, she wouldnt be so affected by me. I allready won her or she wouldnt be confused by her A. All I had to do was stop my 'do nothing' behavior and start treating her like my W again. I didnt even have to address any of her valid issues, because she just wanted somone strong and decisive enough to lead her out of the mess.
My Goal was to take responsibility for what I did wrong, and my plan was to do what works. I had cut her off completely, and she called (and called and called) for a meeting to arrange financial stuff for the D. (There was nothing to arrange. It was bogus.) We met at a bookstore and she fell apart emotionally, and gave me the Im not sure spiel. No sh!t. Thats why we were getting a D, cause she didnt know what she wanted. It was not my fault-- at all-- that she didnt know what she wanted. It was not my responsibility, I had given her the most powerful thing. Choice. I was angry. I went over to the R section saying something about 'Im sure the answer is in here'.[sarcasm] I held in contempt every R book I had ever perused prior to this. She knew that. IMO, the ones I had read dont know sh!t about attraction, couldnt explain what OM did, or what Nops is capable of, and used to do when he was younger, or why it works.
I saw one that said DR. on it and grabbed it. Lets see what smarty pants has to say. Opened it up and sped-read an essay on how a man has to let his W into every room in his house so she can feel connected to him. I got it. Even thought my beliefs prior to that were closer to differentiation, oedipus, I understood what he meant. Damn. I never did that. In fact I actively made sure of the opposite. Looked at her --looked at the book and said, 'this is crazy, your crazy and I refuse to be a part of the insanity' put it back and left.
4 months Prior to this our MC (who we went to 1x) had given me/us MWD DB book. She implored me to read it. the day after MC, when x told me and the MC that she wanted the M to work and the OM was done (cause the MC wouldnt work with us otherwise) x contacted OM. That was the first time I ever lost my temper with a woman. lying calculating deceitful. Tore the DB book into confetti, threw our wedding pictures across the living room, and then when she went to tell OM it was over...again... right after that.. I lost my temper again when I went over and got her 2 hours later... Thats when I was done with her/with the M/ with me. I dont lose my temper. It doesnt happen --unless its controlled. It dont bother me losing my mind, as long as I choose when/where/howlong. being out of control and losing my mind.... barf. I went back to cali --she followed me --her choice.
I ruminated on the essay for a while, went back bought the book. ruminated some more. Sucked it up. My Goal was to take responsibility for what I did wrong, fix my M, and my plan was to do everything I knew that works.
I stayed through the bad. It was the indifferent that got me. Because people get over being mad, they get over hurts and transgressions. But when someone becomes so comfortable in a state of indifference, that's where I lose hope, kwim?
Yes I most certainly do. Thank you for rephrasing it and reaffirming it. When I say bad though, I mean bad. The night I vented on x, I couldnt stop myself, but ... its the worst beating Ive ever given anyone. And it came right when she made herself open and vulnerable again. When I first came here some of the ladies were empathatic to my pain. I guarantee if they had seen me that night those same ladies would have drawn and quartered me. I felt so ..... relieved afterwards though. Purged. I was done. Spent. I didnt expect her to put up with my crap, I dont believe in being disrespectful or hurtful. That not a boundary. Thats retailiatory, and demonstrates that your boundaries have been breached. I like to think of myself as imperturbable. HAHAHA. oh well. She got to me.
Even though she left the next day, she clung to me in bed that whole night after it was over. I let her, and held her hand, and when she left the next day I helped her carry out the little bit she had. We had never unpacked from the move from Tex. I wouldnt allow it untill I knew where we stood. I was going to let it chill for a month or so, and then go thru the process, again, to put things back together. Like I said I felt great. I knew she was justifiable pissed. Two weeks later I found out she was back in contact with OM.
Sigh. I guess I expected him to eventually forgive me or accept that he could not and let me go. Silly girl.
Listen to Corri. NO ONE can forgive you, but you. Untill you give it to yourself, you wont be able to accept it from anyone else. Untill you give it to yourself, you wont be able to implement boundaries. Untill you give it to yourself, you wont be able to treat yourself with the respect and dignity you deserve and allow yourself to earn good things.
I hear what you are saying though. x wanted me to say I forgave her several times too. I wouldnt do it. I gave her some of the same reasons as above, but I also like to use correct pyschology to justify my being an Ahole and hold people at a good distance. That was her reason for filing for the D. She thought I would never forgive her. I know that she was telling everyone else that the D is not what she wanted. Im not comparing you to x, because she escalated to a PA. Inmybook, thats nullifies everything. Whatever you believe will be.
Burgbud.... chocolate chip....or oatmeal?
I dont see where Cobra was being mean... I do see where what he is suggesting to Heather is not realistic. Heather needs her space, so she can take care of herself, she needs to receive some love and attention, and she needs to protect her legal rights to her children. I personally wouldnt let anyone or anything risk that.
Quote: ----------------------------------------- Comments would be helpful. Thanks. -----------------------------------------
The letter to your husband was good.
I would like to open a discussion with you with regard to a tactic that MrsNOP and I brought to your attention some time back, as well as some additional ideas.
I have been studying all things relationship since March of 2003 when my marriage was close to dying. My wife and I have since recovered. I have been studying affairs in earnest since July of 2004 because a friend's wife was unfaithful to him. Also, I find the subject fascinating.
I've been keeping up with your situation via MrsNOP. I have some ideas for you, but you aren't going to like them. If you would like to seriously discuss some possibilities that might give you back a fighting chance with your husband, I will be happy to discuss them with you. Just let me know.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I have some ideas for you, but you aren't going to like them. If you would like to seriously discuss some possibilities that might give you back a fighting chance with your husband, I will be happy to discuss them with you. Just let me know.
My emotions were all over the place when I read this and hope glimmered for a moment. I can't stop the separation process though-I have made my decision and must stand by it. I have already filed once before and stopped the process, so my credibility is on the line. Also, although I want to save my M, I will not stay in the M as it is. You see, I am not looking to the past and saying that because of it I must leave. I am looking to the future and seeing that my H doesn't see the errors in the past so that we can change them in the future...it's because I can't see the future as being any different than our past that I must leave.
I may not have done a great job or even a good job the past two and a half years, but I did the best I could and I give H credit for the same. I'm emotional, I've gone back and forth, my actions haven't always been consistent with my emotions and vice versa. I've been confused, I've been reactive. It was still the best I could do. And now, after going so long with a minimum display of love or respect, I am running on 'E'. My H cannot even tell me he still loves me. I don't want someone who doesn't want me and I am worth more than sticking around contorting myself to make him want me. I can't respect myself doing that. I am a good person NOPS, and to see that shouldn't take as much effort on my H's behalf as it seems to. Even after the way H has treated me, I can still see the good in him and I think it's worth fighting for, but he doesn't seem to feel the same way about me. For once I agree with Cobra in that if H wasn't done, he would be sending different signals.
Re-reading what I've written above, I don't know what my answer is to you but based on what I said and what your suggestions are, you can probably see the answer better than I can. Either way, I appreciate your concern for me and please tell MrsNops the same.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
My ideas are for use at the place you are now. I am certainly not asking you to change your course of action. I will be asking you to change some things about yourself.
Since I didn't get a clear answer, are you interested or not?
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
The way I see your situation is that the only way it is going to change is if one of the players, you or hubby, moves off center. Since you are here, that means you.
I have very specific reasons for making the following suggestions, let me make them and you tell me if you can stand to do them, then I can explain why if you like.
1) Replace your vehicle. Your husband considers it an affront to his manhood every time he sees you in it. He considers it a disrespectful action. Sell it and apologize for being so insensitive to his feelings by driving it after other man had tainted it. Ask for forgiveness if you can bring yourself to do it.
2) Using the same tactic, deal with the kissing issue. Tell him that he never has to kiss you again if he doesn't want to then follow the above example regarding apology and forgiveness (don't worry, he will likely eventually want to kiss you again).
Those two items effectively put the affair to death. Once that has been done, then it is time to begin to negotiate a new relationship with him, one with new boundaries and requirements.
I am sure that you are aware that the old relationship, as is, is dead. The only way to repair it, is to finish it off and start a new one.
I do realize that I am asking you to do what seems like eating more crow. What I am really asking you to do is to address the unresolved portions of the affair.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I'm going to tell you sumtin'. Nop was the very first poster who responded to me on the boards, waaaaayyyyyy back when. If you want to get creative with the search engine, you might likely find my first post.
Although my M ended in D, it certainly was not lack for effort on the very effective suggestions that NOP gave me. He was in a tough place himself, for sure, but, in his very firm but gentle way, he was able to break through my 'Corri' walls and help me find a measure of emapathy. I can tell you I held on a lot longer because of the seriousness I gave to his suggestions. And the small measure of success I found. And I did.
There were other things, unfortunately, that diverged on my marriage at the same time I had hit my upswing. My H had gotten some very serious promotions at work, there was a strong amount of 'eog play' that came into his bearing... and his entire 'modis operendi' changed. Dam near everything about him changed in the last year of my M... and I had already contacted a private detective.
That does NOT negate the effectiveness of NOP advice. I would urge you, honey, to listen closely. NOP has been around the block more times than you or I and bf and Stig, and a few countless others, combined.
He's no superman. He's a mere mortal, just like you and I. But he is a wonderful mortal, full of compassion and understanding, and straight-forward shooting.
But. If you are beyond this, certainly no one is blaming you.
Tell him that he never has to kiss you again if he doesn't want to
...is embraced by people I normally think of as proponents of radical honesty.
It is the truth.
What about that statement is not true? I cant think of anything truer then acknowledging another persons right to choice and accepting their boundaries.
I certainly hope your not going to take up your sniper position again. because while I am going to stay out of this exchange between Nops and heather completely, I will be happy to snipe right back in hopes for her M.
