I just got the book, Silent Sons, by Robert Ackerman that so many here have referenced. It's really an excellent book.
There are many sections in the book that I find extremely relevant, but I am noting one in particular as the title of my thread
Quote:
The Wounded Spirit - A boy's world is dominated by his family, and if the family is wounded, so is the boy. Each wound supresses the spirit and makes it quieter.
I am sad when I look at my H. I see him as spirit-less. He seems to lack any real joy or inner peace.
As I raise my kids, I am able to have a lot of empathy for their emotions, becuase I remember being a kid and the emotions that went along with it. I remember being so attached to my mom that I cried for her when I went to bed alone at night. My S4 is going through that now, and I am able to relate to him becuase I remember feeling that way. I remember what it felt like when my mom held me and comforted me when I was sick. So, I am able to do those things for my kids.
I don't believe H has recollections of any of that stuff. I don't think he remembers what it feels like to be comforted by his parents. If he did, he wouldn't claim to have never needed them. And for that reason, I think he has a lack of empathy for others. When my kids are sick, he kisses them and asks them how they're feeling, but he doesn't truely comfort them.
I have that childhood spirit still in me. I remember being a child. I see it all again in my children. H doesn't have that childhood spirit in him. Sure, he remembers being a child and talks about games he used to play and TV shows he liked growing up, but I don't think he remembers what it feels like to be vulnerable and in need of mommy and daddy.
I think a lot of that has stunted his ability to express certain emotions and feel certain things.
The thing that gets me, though, is that when I met H, he did seem to have those things. That's why I fell in love with him. He treated me like gold. He was a sensitive, caring, compassionate guy, at the age of 19. He had more spirit back then than he does now at 33.
"I am sad when I look at my H. I see him as spirit-less. He seems to lack any real joy or inner peace."
I have witnessed that too. I think it is because they feel they have caused so much damage all the way around and they are afraid of losing everything???? My H has admitted this as recently as a month ago.
The Bomb: 08/05 H moves out: 06/2006 H moves back: 01/07 & Out again: 01/07 H moves back: 03/08 & Out again: 04/08 H moves back: 05/09 & Out again: 07/09 Divorced 08-12 Kids: 22, 20, 19
Aid, He can discover his spirit. He may not have much to get back in the true vein of spirit. He had charisma, he had charm, but spirit and faith in other people he can nurture, grow and discover. That is the hopefulness of being human. We continually learn our whole lives. The most powerful learning tool is "mistakes". Holly
Bomb 1/06 D dismissed 11/07, attempt reconciliation. Premature. Divorce final October 31, 2008. OW looks like bad history. Over. Still hopeful. Baby steps. In R with my X.
SF, It's so hard for us to look at our Hs like this, isn't it?
Holly, You are so introspective. I love you for that! I agree, the best learning took is mistakes. I am going to take not of that. It's SO true. But my concern is that my H doesn't learn frmo his mistakes.
I do think he knows that he never wants to be in this positino again.
I could have written your post, about my own H. Especially this:
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The thing that gets me, though, is that when I met H, he did seem to have those things. That's why I fell in love with him. He treated me like gold. He was a sensitive, caring, compassionate guy, at the age of 19. He had more spirit back then than he does now at 33.
In fact, even the ages you stated are exactly the same in my case. If you ever find the answer to this, please share it with me, because I have been struggling with this for some time now. I don't know what happened to my H's spirit, either. He had the ability and desire to show more love and affection in his younger years than in his 30's. And yes, I was treated like gold, too. But not so much now.
I haven't read Silent Sons but I've heard enough about it here that I am sure my H is another one of them. For certain, so much of this goes back to their childhoods where they did not receive everything that they needed in the form of love and support from their parents. I know my H didn't. He has shared stories with me; very sad.
I do feel sorry for my H as well, because I know he is a lost and confused man. He tried to grow up and he failed.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
H came last night at 6:30ish. S4 and I had made meatballs, so we had a nice pasta and meatballs dinner together as a family. I put the kids to bed, then H and I watched Grey's Anatomy (it was the bomb episode from last year.. but I digress).
At 10ish, we went to bed. I assumed that H would have wnated some lovin'. But after we went to bed, I rolled to his direction thinking he would then initiate. He didn't. So, I rolled over and went to sleep. Not sure if he wnated me to initiate and he was testing me, or if he really wasn't intersted. Whatever.
So, I am "as if'ing". This morning, I rolled over and hugged him. I am acting as though he wants me in his arms. But not overdoing it. After a bit, I got up and got the kids. Then we were all in bed. Then I went downstaris with the kids.
Then I went back up and crawled back into bed with H and just laid with him for a few minutes and chatted. I just wanted to show him that I wanted to be close to him. After a few minutes, I went back downstaris because S4 was calling for me.
I then made H tea (he has a cold) and I let him be alone in bed whiel the kids and i were down here. I little while later, I went back up and jumped back into bed with him and he was just watching some repeats of stuff that I had DVRd.
He's now getting coffee and bageld with S4. I am acting as thought things are normal. I suggested we all go to Home Depot today and work on teh house. I told him i had a project in mind for him... to fix the door in the basement.
So, things are okay... not great, but not terrible. WHenever I feel that H is pulling away, I try to show him some love in some way or another, but I'm not overdoing it.
And I haven't asked about OW in weeks now.
Also, the kids and I painted pictures yesterday that we're going to sneak into H's bags before he leaves for his Biz trip on Monday. It's somethign I used to do long ago when he went on trips that I've recently started going agaion. The last few times he's gone away, I've put somethign that the kids and I have made into his bag.... just so he knows how much we love him.
There must be something more to the story than just a lack of these things during childhood, because not every non-MLC male or female out there had glowing childhoods.
My father was an insensitive clout when I was growing up. He was mean, unemotional, never hugged, never congratulated us for anything that we did. He liked it when I played football, didn't mind picking me up for practice and things like that, but anything else was a major inconvenience.
He would go out drinking after work instead of coming home, argue loudly with my mom when he did get home, and basically seemed to do his best to ignore the kids as much as possible. My Mom, God bless her, tried to keep everything together. She was the one who would compliment us, love us, hug us, and keep us safe from Dad's tirades.
I grew up most of my life feeling as though I had to do anything possible to keep Dad happy. He's changed A LOT over the years. He was a Vietnam vet and has in the last 4-5 years been in ongoing counseling which has changed him into a man who is almost overly emotional at times. He can and does say I love you often now, and always expresses his admiration for me and what I've accomplished in my life. He has broken down in tears over what has happened in my marriage. People can change.
But again my point was that I feel like I would be a prime candidate for one of these MLC journeys based on my childhood, particularly as it involves my father. But I haven't. So what's the other piece to the puzzle?
Even for my wife, I wonder about this. She has plenty of baggage in her adolescent cart from her mother. But all of the children experienced the same garbage while growing up. Why is my wife the only one of the four children who have found themselves immersed in the MLC ride?
It's more than just bad memories from childhood. Just not sure what the rest of the puzzle is.
bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
But again my point was that I feel like I would be a prime candidate for one of these MLC journeys based on my childhood, particularly as it involves my father. But I haven't. So what's the other piece to the puzzle?
Bill, I do not know. Maybe you found ways around enduring low self-esteem (something which I know my husband has, but shouldn't if you could see all he's done with his life). I guess it has to do with the way we handle what we've been through in our younger years. I can look at my own childhood and see enough to jot myself down for a MLC, but I have never been through what my husband has been going through. So, it still remains a mystery to me.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
The thing that gets me, though, is that when I met H, he did seem to have those things. That's why I fell in love with him. He treated me like gold. He was a sensitive, caring, compassionate guy, at the age of 19. He had more spirit back then than he does now at 33.
I could have written the same only 23 and 44 in place of the ages.
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have that childhood spirit still in me. I remember being a child. I see it all again in my children. H doesn't have that childhood spirit in him. Sure, he remembers being a child and talks about games he used to play and TV shows he liked growing up, but I don't think he remembers what it feels like to be vulnerable and in need of mommy and daddy.
This part is scary to me, I am the one that does not have these warm memories from childhood. I don't remember being comforted by my mother and when I remember feeling comforted by my father, it turned into something ugly and inappropriate. Why am I not the one withdrawing from my marriage. I do feel that H and his family covers too much stuff up to appear to be the perfect family. I know that MIL felt neglected and discarded by her mother because she left her with her grandparents and went with alcoholic father. I also know that FIL was adopted by a warm loving mother and a emotionally cool, controlling father. There has to be some aftermath from this.
Everything happens for a reason, maybe Dad needs to find that it isn't better out there, he needs to realize how good he had it here. Maybe he will find God and that is the most important thing when he finds Him he will know he is supposed to come home.
Hi bworl, your qoute: But again my point was that I feel like I would be a prime candidate for one of these MLC journeys based on my childhood, particularly as it involves my father. But I haven't. So what's the other piece to the puzzle?
I believe the other piece of the puzzle is that which has been suppressed in the subconsious. And this is what makes them so irrational. In my own childhood when I first started going to primary school, I haven't got a single memory of the pain and kicking and screaming I did when my mum put me on the school bus. But I just 'knew' that these events had happened. So how do you figure that one out then, I have no memory of these events but I 'know' they happened?
