I agree. I did not mean to digress from the main issue you are working on. And perhaps I am just projecting my sitch too much on yours. Please forget about it and as you say, cross the bridge if there is a bridge to cross.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Corri... how did you find those old posts? I, too, thought they were all gone.
cobra wrote somewhere back there
Quote:
I think he needs to strike a balance between exerting his own power in the relationship but holding short of making it into a confrontation that could escalate further.
If hd refuses to "get into it" with her no matter what she says, there will be NO escalation. Hd has 100% of the control over whether there will be escalation. It takes two people to fight... if hd refuses to jump into the pit, there will be NO fight/escalation.
Corri... how did you find those old posts? I, too, thought they were all gone.
I clicked on the search link. I selected the SSM Forum on the left; I typed in "Monkey" without the quotes in the Keyword Search Terms and then selected the 'in subject' button below; in the Date Range, I wiped out the 'newer than' terms of 1 and week, and in the 'older than' field, I typed in 3 and selected Year(s) from the pull down menu.
It took me a few tries fiddling with the date ranges; once I discoverd I could get rid of the 'newer than' ranges, I was on my way.
If hd refuses to "get into it" with her no matter what she says, there will be NO escalation. Hd has 100% of the control over whether there will be escalation. It takes two people to fight... if hd refuses to jump into the pit, there will be NO fight/escalation.
Whether right or wrong, I am not proposing that HD stay out of the pit. He has done that enough. He needs to show her, and she must come to understand, that he is willing to get in the pit. If she can respect that, then there need not be any argument. The problem I see is that she does not respect his boundaries, his desires, his wishes, nor his actions when he tries to take a stand. In the end I do not think she believes that he will enforce his wants in anyway.
This is why I think she only understands power. Once she learns that lesson, I think she will not repeat it and they can start to step up to the next level of learning. However if I am wrong, and she does understand power (and she should since she is a lawyer) then why doesn’t she respect HD for his wishes anyway? Why does she force him to resort to the lowest level of relationships? For this, I am speculating that her fear (of whatever it is in her FOO that we don’t know) is strong enough to overwhelm her respect for HD. I don’t see how staying out of the pit will turn this around, it only reinforces her behavior.
The only other explanation I can think of is that she has some legitimate grips which HD is not acknowledging. It seems some of the ladies have been able to clue in on some of these possible issues. I am putting a little more weight on the possibility that HD has not come totally clean with us, or at least that there may be some things he does that is really irritating MrsHD that HD is unaware of.
HD can never make her understand until she is willing to understand. He has talkedtalkedtalkedtalked until he is blue in the face (I'm assuming this, having never seen him). Right now he is working on a BEHAVIORAL change.
By staying out of the pit, I do not mean he ignores her or refuses to engage with her. I was responding to your comment that he could cause a "confrontation that could escalate." YES he will cause a confrontation by stating his want for regular sex over and over again. But this will not ESCALATE if he refuses to jump into the pit.
He states his want. She blusters, flails, jumps up and down and waves her arms. He states again. Note that he is not ASKING for anything. He is stating a WANT and leaving it up to her to respond.
This is EXACTLY the PERFECT way to interact with Mrs. HD. It also doesn't matter whether HD is also doing stuff to pi$$ her off. Those issues don't have anything to do with HD's wants any more than karen's grasp of her husband's sterling qualities vis a vis her accident negates her desire that he step up to the plate sexually. Two separate issues in each of those families.
HD is stating a want. Period. PERSUASION HAS NOT WORKED IN THE PAST. Why do you keep bringing up FOO issues. And now suggesting that HD is holding out on us? So what if he is. It doesn't matter if he's Bluebeard and has a harem of women tied up in the basement. No doubt she does have legitimate gripes with HD. It would be impossible to find a couple where each of the people doesn't have a legitimate gripe with the other about something. Her having gripes with him does not exempt her from marital sex. All he is doing is stating a want to Mrs. HD that is an appropriate want to state within a marriage and letting her respond as she will.
You keep bringing in all these issues and "facts" that are muddying the water. (VERY 5 of you!) Her "reasons" at this point for not wanting sex don't really matter. She has shown in the past that she cannot be reasoned with on this issue. HD is saying "this is something I want and you don't have to understand why, and I don't have to justify it or explain why I want it." It can't get any clearer than this.
I am not suggesting that HD try to convince his wife of anything, but that he show her by physical action that he will jump right into that pit and stand toe to toe with her. If he does this, she WILL learn that he can back up his talk, argument or no argument.
My guess is that HD can state his wants till the cows come home and it won’t make one bit of difference. We will wait and see what happens. After a few months have passed and nothing has changed except the endless statement of wants, what do you propose HD do then? Convince himself in someway that he should really be happy with what is?
I don't believe HD, by staying calm and out of the 'everything but the kitchen sink'arguments Ms. HD has been throwing his way is what I'd call 'backing off.' And he's seen almost immediate results.
He's standing his ground. He's just not slinging shite back at her.
Sure, it may get ugly, and I don't believe HD is rubbing his hands together in anticipation of such an event... but I don't see him backing off from the possibility of it occuring, either. He plans on crossing the bridge when he gets there, one step at a time... and staying as calm and collected as he can.
Let's not forget, first and foremost, our HD IS a very intelligent man. He's very well aware of what he has to do. And he will, in his own way and his own time.
Actually I have quite a lot of faith in HD. I know he has it in him, its just a question of when conditions become extreme enough to push him to dig down deep and summon his strength. What he needs is for his anger to rise up to give him the motivation to break through his past conditioning and take a stand. It is only a matter of time. What I also have faith in is the obstinance MrsHD can summon forth when challenged.
I'm sure that is man-speak you are throwing out, and the gentle, girl side of me taking umbrage at your 'tone,' and 'chest thumping.' I'm sure every man on here gets exactly what you are saying.
And HD certainly does not need me, a gentle girl standing up for him. So, I'll shut up.
