Muddle's Waters V

[MuddleThrough]

I am NOT responsible for his feelings, and I do deserve to have some answers, regardless of whether or not it makes him feel uncomfortable.

As for asking where Payless was - I can't believe she would get so upset about such a little thing. So what? You didn't know where Payless was, big friggin deal!

It is very important to recognize that you are not responsible for the feelings of another person. You are responsible for being true to yourself - being dishonest for the sake of trying to keep another person's emotions at bay is nasty stuff. I have been guilty of doing this in the past and it's not the easiest habit to break. Being on the other side of it can be equally as uncomfortable though.

I don't think it's the not knowing where the place was that sparked the issue, it's more that I made public that we were going to a place that is somewhat stigmatizing that was embarrassing to her. The way I asked it as well as the fact that the cashier didn't know and asked someone else made things worse. I was told that I "should have known that he wouldn't know" etc. Basically I was told that my avoidant skills weren't good enough. I didn't anticipate a situation that would cause her discomfort and I didn't deal with it well. It's holding things like this over my head that make her feel that I cause her so much pain.

[jamespb75]

Well, if you knew how the situation would of made her feel, then you could take over for Miss Clio. Since you don't read peoples minds and you are HUMAN, you are allowed to make mistakes. You did nothing wrong, I understand she was upset. I wouldn't have been, but some people are funny that way. We all say things that may be upsetting to others, but the truth is you are who you are. Trying to avoid every comment that might possibly be taken the wrong way by your W, will drive people to a nut house. You don't ask a question unless you think you would find out the answer. This payless thing is not really the issue, but I'm sure that this happens a lot.

You know, you have answered alot of the threads with answers to your situations. I go back and read them from time to time, because I find a lot of answers I'm searching for. I can see she brings you down when she says you cause her pain, does she have any hobbies or GAL things she is working on? I think the best thing for her is to GAL. Maybe try to find something in common that you both could do. I suggested to my W that I loved working out, it relieved alot of stress. She took interest in it, and wanted to join a workout place herself. I am lucky and have some workout equipt. at the store I manage. I stay after about an hour, and leave feeling great. I suggested to her if she wanted to meet me there she could. I got a I'm interested look, but no answer. At least I put it out there. It's just one way to try to reconnect. Ya know?

[jamespb75]

Hey sorry to bother you, can you read my thread and let me know what you think? Thanks

[Heywyre]

We are responsible TO each other but we are not responsible FOR each other (feelings included)

[MuddleThrough]

How easily we blur that line! We want our spouses to be happy, but when we allow it to impact our happiness - when we become dependent on it - we start living in another's personal space. It is very disrespectful to do so. We can't fix another person, and to try and do so is disrespectful too.

[Heywyre]

Exactly - we aren't responsible for what others do. I have this wonderful book called "the four agreements" by Miguel Ruiz. It is based on the ancient Toltec wisdom and one of the four agreements is "don't take anything personally" which is so easy to say and so hard to do. But what it is basically saying is we are not responsible for what others think of us - what they think and say is a protection of their own reality

[whatisis]

Muddle, did you say the PAYLESS word! Is there nothing you won't stoop to in your bid to drive this woman mad
I've been there myself. It was a few years ago when we were away on a short vacation. The waitress at a restaurant asked if we'd like to take the leftovers with us, W said yes, I said "dear, we don't have a fridge at the hotel" so she then declined to take them. When we got back to the hotel, she was fuming because I had embarassed her in front of the waitress. I apologized and said I would try to be more mindful of those kind of situations in the future. Now, to me it was just a fact being presented (without much thought) but to her it was an attack on her competence in front of a stranger. I figured if that was her experience of what I did then I really didn't need to understand it, just respect it.
But at least I didn't use the PAYLESS word

[MuddleThrough]

I apologized and said I would try to be more mindful of those kind of situations in the future.

Whatis,

I don't mean to be oppositional here, but what exactly were you apologizing for and why? It seems to me you're acknowledging that you did a poor job managing her emotions and you plan to do a better job of it in the future. So not only do you feel you let her down because she ended up embarrassed for something you judge to be insignificant or irrational, but then you feel responsible for those bad feelings, or at the very least repairing them, so you apologize.

This is something that I am guilty of doing too, so please don't take it as an attack. I am legitimately sorry that she's feeling bad, especially because of something I've done. This is often why I apologize, and through this sitch I have become far more aware of this. I started telling my W that I'm sorry she feels however she does, because it really is what I'm sorry for. I don't believe I did anything wrong - it's just that her emotive response to the situation I participated in was negative. I didn't cause her negative reaction, I was only part of a situation that she responded to. She and she alone has the power to change the dynamic of a situation so she doesn't feel horribly negatively about it. She has responded to this with frustration - extreme at times. She wants me to apologize for causing her feelings, for the actions that created them. I refuse to apologize for something I'm not sorry for. It's dishonest to do so.

So recently I have decided to acknowledge her feelings, whatever they are, and not apologize for anything. There's no real need to, and I think my apology seems insincere (because I'm not telling her that I won't do it again) and is often used to support her belief that I think there's something wrong with her because she feels what she does. What I'm trying to do with this is to avoid living in a blame dynamic. Trying to avoid or manage blame keeps it alive as much as blaming does. So I take it out of that realm. I will not deflect it, nor will I acknowledge it. What I will do is acknlowledge how she feels, even how she believes she got to feeling the way she did. It isn't about me, and to take it personally will do nothing but create more conflict in the situation because I'm trying to defend myself. I have read the 4 agreements and thought it was a good book (the first 3/4ths of it at least), and I think this is essentially what he's getting at.

[whatisis]

Muddle, no offense taken! It's a good question. I corrected her in front of someone else over something that was really unimportant. She was and is sensitive to looking "stupid" in front of others. So my job is to not do that to her when I know she is this way. If it is important, I can take her aside, give my reasoning and she can change her mind herself. In the case of left over food, it really didn't matter. I just stated that I would try not to do that in future. So this was something I was able to identify and she had the courage to tell me. To me correcting her didn't seem to be a big deal, but to her it was, so I try to respect that. I didn't feel bad but committed to being more mindful of not "correcting" her in front of others. I saw this as co-operating not pandering to her issues. I have my sensitivities too and would appreciate her being aware and respectful of those as well. Now, if my W uses her sensitivities to beat me into the ground, then that's a different story.

[MuddleThrough]

I see this side of it too. In my sitch, it's often this very thing that's used to support the idea that I don't care about my W's feelings. So I'm emotionally attached to the issue and I admit that I probably don't have the clarity on the issue I'd like to. I often think it's an "agree to disagree" issue. Telling my W that I can keep track of all that has made her uncomfortable and then make accurate judgments from this history of what will make her uncomfortable in the future is more than I can handle. In any given situation I need to be responsible for me - and I can't do this very well if I'm being responsible for my W as well, especially when this isn't a two way street.

In the payless example, do you think my W thought about, or gave a damn, that it embarrassed me that she stormed out of the store? Not that it was much of an issue for me, but the point is that she was focused only on how she felt and faulted me for not being focused on her. Had she thought about how her actions could impact me in the very same way she thinks I should have done, she probably wouldn't have felt nearly as bad as she did. Very often the very thing we think our spouse should do or should have done is what WE should have done for ourselves.