Still alive, Part II

[LustForLife]

And mentioning an affair or leaving the marriage, it is not the way to engender respect with her. It is threatening and will force us further apart.

Hmm... I think that is your fear talking (and avoidance of course).
Are you telling me that it's not an honest answer? Can you deny that? You think not saying it outloud will make it not come true?
That it will just go away?
I guess that is my point. It won't go away until you let her know how you really feel. And heck yes, it might cause major chaos for a while, but what you are doing now is NOT going to work. Why would it?
Not only is she a strong cookie but she's a smart cookie, she will read you like a book if you are trying to dance around the real issues.

Asking to make love once a week is more than just sex. It is about being honest -- with myself. It is about getting my own self respect back.

But you are asking her to respect YOU too, right? It's not all about getting your self-respect back. It takes two to have sex and be in a M.
Yes, you will probably feel better about yourself for asking for the once a week sex. But your tactics are still wrong I think. And actually could just extend this problem indefinitely.

I have told her all these things before, many times.

I guess I don't understand why this time is any different then.

[Lillieperl]

Okay... I get ya. The "I want" statement is a clean clear statement about HIM. A "request" can be made from a place of hiding.

[Lillieperl]

Quote:
HD:I have told her all these things before, many times.

LFL:I guess I don't understand why this time is any different then.

It's different because he's making this one request over and over again, INSTEAD of rehashing the stuff that didn't work in MC (wanting respect, closeness, etc.)

[LustForLife]

It's different because he's making this one request over and over again

Yep, that's different. But why would it work?

[Lillieperl]

It probably won't. But he KNOWS the other stuff didn't work.

Personally I don't think it WILL work. I think she is incorrigible. I don't think anything will bring her around. But this method clears out the talktalktalk and the underbrush. The clears the landscape. Then she and hd can see what they're really dealing with.

And he IS changing himself, by speaking up, for one thing.




Who knows? It may work.


This method is not designed to change her; it's designed to clarify the situation.

[fearless]

W: I wish you could figure out why this is so important to you. I wish you could figure out why you think this is going to make you happy.

I think she is asking you to open up to her more there. Did you tell her an honest answer?
Only you know what that totally honest answer is, but maybe something along the lines of: I'm growing to resent you and think of you as a real B*itch. I'm having bad thoughts about having an affiar, or leaving or.....etc.
You get the idea.
NOT some lame answer like I want emotional closeness, sexual closeness, blah, blah.

Okay HD I am very hesitant to post because I know almost nothing about your sitch and I know I can get myself in trouble pretty quickly. (And yet that doesn't stop me :))

Please bear with what might be a stupid question but what is the true answer to both of your wife's questions? In my opinion the answer that "I'm growing to resent you" isn't any more truthful that "the emotional closeness" answer. Both are probably true as symptoms but neither are the "root cause" of why having sex x number of times per week/month/whatever is important to you. Would it be the fact that she has listened to you and taken your feelings and wants into account (so you could be "in charge")? WOuld it just be the physical need ? Do you think that she would change if she made love to you regularly (wanting her to be something different)? Would you change if you had sex regularly (you want to be different)? YOu would feel attractive and desirable to her? Or maybe something completely different. I just think it would be useful for you to understand what you're looking for.

And listen to her second question even more closely, she asks why you think making love will make you happy? To me this is interesting because it could mean a few things (in addition to just being a usual avoidance technique) maybe she sees you as putting too much importance on her and not taking care of yourself sufficiently OR maybe she fears having you thinking that making love to her will make you happy; MAYBE she doesn't feel worthy of that kind of feeling; MAYBE she's afraid she will let YOU down; OR maybe it's a combination of all of these feelings.

I think you would do yourself some good to really ponder those questions. And I would be in no hurry to share those answers with your wife. Take time to work the answers out for yourself and work on whatever direction those answers take you.

My two cents for whatever it's worth.

[Burgbud]

what is the true answer to both of your wife's questions?

Note for the record: she didn't ask him any questions. She told him what she wishes. She's not engaging him at all, she wishes he'd deal with it all on his own.

[fearless]

Note for the record: she didn't ask him any questions. She told him what she wishes. She's not engaging him at all, she wishes he'd deal with it all on his own.

Knowing nothing about her, I am guessing that it's a weak attempt to ask the question without actually getting an answer. It may be that she suspects that he doesn't have the actual answers. This may be out of place in HD's context (so if I'm wrong, I'm wrong) but I'm not so concerned about Ms HD's faults, mistakes, weaknesses etc. because HD won't be able to "fix" those issues. He can only work on his issues and trust/hope? that Ms. HD will respond to his changes.

Side note: I did read the exchange about your wives being feminists. I believe myself to be a feminist yet I don't subscribe to the feminism you both described. I believe that women should have the right of equal opportunity not that men and women are exactly the same. I personally LOVE being a woman and therefore I am able to love and appreciate men also. I tend to think that the staunch feminist typically doesn't truly appreciate herself as a woman and therefore doesn't appreciate men either. Just a general theory of mine. Your stories also reminded me of a "feminist" acquaintance of mine that was "aghast" (whatever happened to Blackfoot??) that I loved the Spiderman movies (and I hated watching the spiderman cartoon with my brothers growing up). She thought the Mary Jane character was so awful. I didn't get it at all. A beautiful talented sweet girl. What's the big deal - so if she was a nuclear physicist she would have been acceptable? I don't believe that being a feminist means that there is anything wrong with being feminine. Just another side to my belief about feminism.

[Burgbud]

Knowing nothing about her, I am guessing that it's a weak attempt to ask the question without actually getting an answer.

I think it's a mistake to respond to weak attempts to ask a question.

I don't think he has to know why he wants sex once a week. And he never said having sex once a week would make him happy, that's a construct she placed on him. He just said that's what he wants.

The point is, he gets to want what he wants without having to logic thru it all. That's a cheeseless tunnel...ask Heather about "Tracy logic" some time. If she can continually shut him down by making him analyze every desire that doesn't fit into her program, he's never going to get anywhere.


Your stories also reminded me of a "feminist" acquaintance of mine that was "aghast" (whatever happened to Blackfoot??)

Heh. What you actually said was that you were "shocked", which is a synonym for "aghast".

[sat567]

Sorry, but the "correct" answer she wants to hear is "you are right. I am grasping for happiness by seeking something from you. I need to seek my Buddha nature and meditate. Only when I stop seeking, will I find true happiness."

Sorry folks, but I've been playing this game too long. I know all the answers. It's like playing Trivial Pursuit with two people who have already looked at all the cards.

Channeling Cobra here, I'm saying that my focusing on the sex, and putting it in front of her every day, is going to push her into the crucible.

Or not.

And Burg's got it, btw. This is not about "making" me "happy." It's not about "making" her do anything. It's not even really about "making" at all. It's about letting her know one of my "wants." A "want" that I've been consistent about. A "want" that I put on the back burner for awhile, to see if it would, as she consistently said, "take care of itself." It didn't.

Anyway, what a great day for a visit to my C!

Talk to y'all later.

Hairdog