hd, read burgbud's long post-- very interesting, esp this part
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MrsHD comes to mind. She insists on being Other (and sure enough, he desires her) and she tends to objectify HD as the male oppressor. (And so, HD, I see this talk you're wanting to have not as an ultimatum or a singular point around which your M will pivot, but more as the start of you demonstrating to her that you're not the object she has in mind for you to be, you're Other...what she does with that will be interesting.)
LFL, by bringing this up every day, hairdog IS facing his avoidance... in a very simple and effective way. Like jumping into the swimming pool every day and learning that it does him no harm. You may not LIKE the ice cold water, but it won't hurt you.
W: I wish you could figure out why this is so important to you. I wish you could figure out why you think this is going to make you happy.
I just looked at her. While her voice got loud and shrill, I was calm, and, when I did talk, it was measured and clear.
And then the convo ended.
I think she is asking you to open up to her more there. Did you tell her an honest answer? Only you know what that totally honest answer is, but maybe something along the lines of: I'm growing to resent you and think of you as a real B*itch. I'm having bad thoughts about having an affiar, or leaving or.....etc. You get the idea. NOT some lame answer like I want emotional closeness, sexual closeness, blah, blah. I doubt she will think you deserve it. You can clean every room in that house, fetch her dinner, say the sweetest things, but deep down she knows you are full of sh*t. You are NOT being honest with her or building respect.
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And LFL, I really am as wonderful as you can imagine
Well, at least you have some self-esteem. But I still think Mr. Wonderful is being Mr. Avoidant. Asking for sex once a week without first builing up her respect and attraction to you is bound to fail. Am I really in the minority here on this viewpoint? I'm certainly no expert but I have had quite a bit of personal experience on this issue. In less than two years I went from a WAH, to counseling, to writing up separation papers, to dating other people, to working on rebuilding a friendship/connection with H again, to him moving back home, to being at a place now where I can honestly say this may be the healthiest our M has ever been. And what was the number one thing I attribute to this transformation? I think it was finally being able to really see my husbands true feelings, and probably he would say mine as well. It's hard not to face reality when your H moves out and your W starts dating other people. Cards were pretty much on the table. I would hate to think your M would have to take such a drastic step, and maybe mine did not need to either. But that's water under the bridge. You still have a great opportunity to talk to her and be completely honest with her. It doesn't mean the sex life will take off, mine is not that much different than before. But we have a greater understanding of each other and respect for each other that if you are honest with yourself, is probably REALLY what you are looking for to be happy. Not sex once a week.
if you are honest with yourself, is probably REALLY what you are looking for to be happy. Not sex once a week.
LFL, the sex once a week is not the END of the conversation, it's a way of BEGINNING the conversation. All of the stuff you suggest is GOOD-- revealing yourself, building up closeness, etc. They TRIED that in MC. This tactic is a way of cracking her shell, so they CAN do the stuff you're suggesting. HD doesn't want to do what you did-- namely leave-- to get her attention. This is a way of getting her attention, getting her to meet him part way, getting her to admit she gives a rat's a$$ about something that's important to him. It's a way of smoking her out of the bushes, short of him walking away.
I think she is asking you to open up to her more there. Did you tell her an honest answer? Only you know what that totally honest answer is, but maybe something along the lines of: I'm growing to resent you and think of you as a real B*itch. I'm having bad thoughts about having an affiar, or leaving or.....etc. You get the idea. NOT some lame answer like I want emotional closeness, sexual closeness, blah, blah. I doubt she will think you deserve it. You can clean every room in that house, fetch her dinner, say the sweetest things, but deep down she knows you are full of sh*t. You are NOT being honest with her or building respect.
I think you are wrong. You might be right. It's too soon to tell.
I have told her all these things before, many times. She belittles my statements about emotional closeness, well, about the same way you just did. "blah blah." And mentioning an affair or leaving the marriage, it is not the way to engender respect with her. It is threatening and will force us further apart.
Asking to make love once a week is more than just sex. It is about being honest -- with myself. It is about getting my own self respect back. It is about being the person that I've put away for so long in order to placate her. It's about being a husband.
Yes, I hope to have a greater understanding of her after all of this. Yes, I hope to have a greater respect for her. Whether I will, or not, it's just too soon to tell.
I'm more or less with LFL here. MrsHD DID give her answer, and it was no. However, that doesn't really matter. What is more important is that HD start presenting his honest slef and stop hiding behind the placating shell he's built up over the years. All Hairy can do is change himself and stop supplicating to her. That means putting out his honest feelings, wants and desires and not hiding behind soothing words like yesterday morning when he replied he wasn't upset. If he is true to himself, and let her see his true self, and keeps it there in her face, then she'll have to get comfy with the real Harry, or get out. By presenting an honest portrait, she can't argue with him; she's going to be forced out of her comfort zone and will be forced to deal with her own sh!t. Harry, despite what I said earlier, I think you are doing a good job here. I guess you found where she hid that set of brass balls. I'm proud of you, man.
I disagree with your point of order, burg. (God! you're one sharp cookie! I have to study your otherness post when I have more time to concentrate.)
I think the cleanest thing is for hd to only make statements about himself, i.e., tell her what he wants. Let her react. I think any statement he makes that includes her will be grounds for deflection.
Exactly. In his later post he said he asked her for sex once a week when in fact, he didn't. I'm sure it was just a throwaway phrase but I wanted to emphasize that the way he actually did it was better.
Don't go changin', HD.
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