Hairdog, Reading your entire post reminded me so much of my H, in terms of his horrid level of avoidance. We all know that ended in him making the ultimate avoidance move: leaving. I sense in the tone of most of your posts that you have a lot of anger. If you don't get that out, you may be on a very bad road. You know, the whole depression is simply anger turned inward saying. Depression can sneak up on you fairly quickly and then you will certainly be in no state to work with your W on this issue. I really think you addressing this with your W, head-on, is so critical. No emails, no notes, no cards, but face-to-face. Don't be a wuss! Talk to her! Nothing is ever going to change unless you get angry and confront her. Or, you could just up and leave. That also seems to be a popular option.
What happened to them brass balls that were being passed around here a year or two ago, weren't you the last recipient of them. What'd you do, stick 'em away in the closet? I'll bet you went and gave them to MrsHD, didn't you. Here, order yourself a new set of brass balls, you'll need them.
C'mon big guy, nothin' is going to change until you strap'em on. Yes, it's awkward as Heck...in fact it is probably more pleasant sticking your 'nads into a running blender with ice cubes and alcohol than it is screwing up the courage to law down the new law. Look at it this way though, what's the worst she'll do to you for laying down the law? Cut off sex? Oh, wait...you aren't getting any anyway. Divorce you? If she'll divorce you over this, isn't it better to know now while you are still young than to wait another 10-20 years in no-nookie Hell? Do a Lorena Bobbit on you? Probably not, besides she's already done that psychologically. See, what's there to be afraid of old friend?
Time to kick that fuzzy lap dog out and become the alpha junk yard dog. Sick-em doggie!
Stop kicking yourself, hd. You didn't bring this up this morning because that was a bad time and you knew it! Holy cow-- waking her up with this convo when you're both on your way out the door. You're telling yourself you chickened out because you're a chicken. Well, you may be a chicken, but that's not why you chickened out this morning! It simply was not the right time for this announcement.
I am absolutely positive that when the time is right, you will speak up. The words will just fly out of your mouth and you'll be wondering who that is talking and making so much g.d. sense.
Lil, I'm not so sure he will. The words seem like they evaporate by the time they pass out of his mouth more often than not, and unless he cranks up the courage I think this is more of the same. I agree this morning might have been poor timing for the convo, but "it could have been handled with a no I'm mad at myself for letting things get the way they are. Can we talk about it tonight when we both have more time." Harry, I'm being hard on you not out of Malice, but in a tough-love fashion. Hope I'm not coming across as an A$$ with a capital 'A'. Small 'a' is fine, just don't want it to be a big 'A'
--GGB working on his monday morning quarterback style of amateur counselling.
I guess we could start a small betting pool... hmmm...
I think he will because he's come too far to go back, he's past the point of no return. He will not ultimately be able to look at himself in the mirror if he does not say something eventually. It may not be real soon, but I predict it will happen within the next month.
It will be on a day when he has given up and decided that he simply CANNOT do it. He will just have to live with conditions as they are. He will come home from work tired, hungry, mad at someone at work. He will feel worn out, used up, empty, without hope.
His W will do/say something, and hairdog will just look at her and the introductory words will ooze out. After a couple of beats, he will realize that this is The Moment He's Been Waiting For, and before he knows it, he says, "I want some changes in our marriage. I'm not going to explain or defend myself. This is what I want: sex at least once a week. It can be on Saturday or Sunday. If it doesn't happen on Saturday, it WILL happen on Sunday. End of conversation. I don't want to discuss it, but I'm going to keep bringing it up until it happens. Now, excuse me, I need to take a shower and hit the sack. I've had a hell of a day. Good night."
Lil Come on. Are you serious? You think just asking for sex on Saturday or Sunday is what has to be done here? Problems go way deeper than that. Why are you simplifying it? It's certainly not going to be easy Hairdog but I think you know what the problems are better than any of us. Tell your W. And not just about wanting more sex. LFL
I'm at home, W isn't home from work yet. I appreciate that you support the avoider in me, Lil. If it were up to that part of me, though, I'd never bring it up. Except, of course, in the midst of an argument we were already having, which totally dilutes any meaning I'm trying to convey. I'm actually getting better at that part of it: not bringing up my sh!t as a deflection or issue or whatever, when the argument is about her issues. Unfortunately, I don't do the follow-through, which is, bring up my issues independently. The avoider steps in and says, "Why bring it up now? You're getting along, things are quiet. Bring it up now and you're just stirring a pot that doesn't need to be stirred." So I bury it, and then, when things get loud, I realize that it's HER issues that are getting addressed, not mine.
It will happen exactly when it is supposed to happen-- not one second earlier or later. Conditions will arrange themselves... the only condition YOU have control over is whether or not you seize the moment this time. ALL of the other stuff is outside your control. And there will be other times.
Lil Come on. Are you serious? You think just asking for sex on Saturday or Sunday is what has to be done here? Problems go way deeper than that. Why are you simplifying it? It's certainly not going to be easy Hairdog but I think you know what the problems are better than any of us. Tell your W. And not just about wanting more sex. LFL
Did you read this whole thread? Of course the problems go deeper than that. But I believe hd cannot go into any convo expecting his W to agree with him that there are issues, allow herself to be persuaded that his concerns are valid, or even allow that his desire for regular sex is the least bit reasonable. Every time he has tried that, she becomes furious, which isn't a problem in itself, except that it deflects the convo from any concern of hd's.
My suggestion is that he request a behavioral change. Something visible, tangible, measurable. AND that he not explain, discuss, defend, or in any way try to justify it.
A while ago, Mrs. HD in a softer moment, said to HD that she was going to try to be a "better wife." My suggestion is that rather than head down the cheeseless tunnel of propose-defend-justify-argue with her (which always seems to end with her outshouting him and declaring her disgust with men and their filthy urges)-- that he shortcut and short circuit that whole song & dance by simply requesting one simple behavioral change.
It is not a threat. He's not saying "you do this or else"-- because there ISN'T an "or else." It's just a request.
The idea is that she said she wanted to be a better wife. He's telling her how she can be a better wife. If she refuses, let her refusal just lie there baking in the sun (or freezing in the snow) where all can see. THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE EXERCISE. Not to reduce the issues to "more sex," but to lure her into a place where it is clear to both of them simultaneously that she is not willing to do the SIMPLEST thing to make him happy.
To bring up other issues would muddy the water. The idea is not to give her the opportunity to outshout or outtalk him. I think he should make a simple request and then let her selfishness and refusal to cooperate scream out what is wrong. When they get into one of these knock-down-drag-out things, the issues get lost.
So this is not oversimplification, by any means. What I'm suggesting is like sniper fire-- one bullet, well aimed, instead of a barrage of shrapnel.
However. You've been down this road once. There will be a feeling that comes over you... the Dead Calm Moment. I felt exactly how you are feeling when I confronted my xH... never brought it to a head for all the things I feared.
And then I hit Dead Calm. Now... my Dead Calm turned out to be a three day crying jag, with me sleeping on the couch... but still, for me.... that's Dead Calm, you know? All bets were off, I laid it out on the line. I SCREAMED with every ounce of feeling I had in me, and by God, I was going to be HEARD... or I wasn't. And if I wasn't... then... I'd deal.
I have to let you in on a little secret. I'm the biggest chicken-shite, fraidy cat on this board. I will avoid until the cows come home. I will deflect, I will anger, I will blah, blah, blah... because, honey, I have a sheer and utter terror, like you cannot even fathom, of pain. I've become intimately familiar with it.
And look at me. I'm still upright. A few loose-cannon moments, a few stops and starts... a few forrays into the unknown... and viola... lost my training wheels.
Living in fear is no way to live. It consumes you. It takes over and drags your life down into an endless pit of dispare and angst. You live in a perpetually gray area of life.
Let the final straw fall. When it does, you will know it, and you will hit Dead Calm. Then have your convo.
I love ya, guy. You can do this. You WILL find your way, simply because you are one of the smartest, funniest, most capable guys I don't really know.
than it is screwing up the courage to law down the new law. Look at it this way though, what's the worst she'll do to you for laying down the law? Cut off sex? Oh, wait...you aren't getting any anyway. Divorce you? If she'll divorce you over this, isn't it better to know now while you are still young than to wait another 10-20 years in no-nookie Hell? Do a Lorena Bobbit on you? Probably not, besides she's already done that psychologically. See, what's there to be afraid of old friend?
