And I don't think it's too much of a stretch to consider at least some of her expressed ideas/beliefs/observations as falling within the "radical" camp of feminists.
I hear ya. My ex is probably not as hard core as your W, philosophically, but in practical implementation she's pretty similar. Every negative encounter with a man is because of sexual discrimination or subjugation, every negative encounter with an institution is due to institutionalized sexism. Any company that doesn't support everything she thinks I should do for the kids is not family friendly and I shouldn't be working for them.
I was watching Everybody Loves Raymond the other day. Debra and Ray were having an argument in the bathroom and she ended up taking the shower nozzle off the hook and squirting him with it. Ray started to wrestle it away from her and I did that sphincter clenching thing, knowing she was either going to call the cops or never EVER let him forget how he used his physical strength against her.
I was on a date and made a move which was received with a good deal of ambivalence. I told the woman I talked about in my earlier post (we talk about these things) that I felt pretty bad about it but was relieved that this date had asked me out to dinner later in the week, so it must not have been too bad for her. My friend replied, "Did you really think a little t!t grope was going to send her to therapy or have her dialing 911?" Uh, yeah, pretty much...yeah...I mean, I hadn't made sure it was okay ahead of time or anything. It's a hard mindset to break out of; nobody wants to be an abuser of the weak.
It's just a matter of getting to the point where I can give myself permission to be me.
I suspect you're a little concerned that perhaps she's too damaged or obstinate to handle who you really are. Maybe you can chase becoming the man she really wants you to be just a little longer.
(It's a joke, man, just a *joke*!!)
Can't wait to tell my W what a great rack she has.
All women like the girls to get noticed. Or so I've been told by reliable sources.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
My good friend's wife is a hardcore feminist who has beaten him into submission. When he admits in front of her that she has the penis, she smiles with pride. She forces him to do half of everything. Trading nights cooking, feeding the baby, etc. (I'm not claiming this is a bad thing...just trying to describe the fact that she enforces it).
I, on the other hand am in a R where we both recognize that we have complimentary strengths and will do better by allowing each other to focus on them. It plays out as a very traditional family with me working all the time and my W being a homemaker and letting me make certain decisions etc. Again, I'm not claiming superiority....these are just the systems we fall into.
But here's the kicker...the more stereotypical-male-obnoxious I act, the more she seems to feedback an odd attraction vibe to me. It's like one side of her wants the traditional man (with a capital M..A..N). But her logic is diametrically opposed.
I bet the male black widow spider gets the same vibe too from his girlfriend.
Last edited by NotATLDave; 02/11/0703:32 PM.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
I took it that his wife makes most of the decisions regarding the home, because she's there all the time. She "lets" him make some decisions, likely because she wants him to be a part of the process. Dave doesn't check in too often or too regularly, so we may never know.
Might just mean that she doesn't even offer argument or input on those decisions. For instance, I "let" my H make stricter rules for the kids than I might because I know that I tend to err on the side of wishy-washy leniency.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I've got to vent. This time, I'm going to vent about myself. About how I continue to be unable to confront my W, even when given multiple opportunities.
This morning, about 10 minutes before my alarm went off (about 45 minutes before hers goes off), I spooned up behind my wife. After a few minutes of my arm draped over her body at a couple inches below her breasts, I decided, what the heck, and gently cupped her breast. I got no immediate reaction, negative or positive, and, about 15 seconds later I gave it a gentle squeeze.
She pushed my hand away and muttered, "I'm sleeping. Let me sleep. What are you thinking? Just let me sleep." She wasn't yelling, or being rude or anything, she was just saying that she didn't want to be messed with because she was sleeping.
With all the ssm stuff running around in my head, I thought to myself, "it would be rude to wake her with the IWTMLOPW (I want to make love once per week) statement. Maybe later."
Alarm goes off. I go downstairs to find that my Grind and Brew Coffeemaker does not like it when it grinds, and brews, and there is no pot to put the coffee in. I had a mess to clean up, and I'm cussing my stupidity for forgetting to put the pot in the coffeemaker. I go back upstairs, take my shower, thinking to myself, "just tell her IWTMLOPW. Just tell her. Just tell her."
Finish my shower, shave, and I'm in my closet getting dressed and see that she's up, getting ready to exercise. We don't speak to each other because, well, she doesn't like to interact when she first rolls out of bed. "Don't want to confront her with this,first thing in the morning" I tell myself.
I go downstairs and get my stuff together to go to work. She comes downstairs. I think "she hates it when we start talking about stuff and she ends up missing her exercise time. Just skip it."
I hate myself at this point and, after saying goodbye, and as I'm walking to the garage she says, "are you mad at me?"
You're thinking to yourself, "what a perfect opportunity."
Instead, I say, "no, I'm just still pissed at myself for messing up the coffeemaker this morning." She says, "you're behaving the way you behave when you're mad at me about something."
I think, "oh great, now, if I bring it up, she'll focus on the fact that I basically lied to her about why I'm upset, instead of just telling her that I am upset and here's why; and, well, yes, I did indeed lie to her, so crapcrapcrap." So I lied to her again: "No, it's just the coffeemaker thing. Bye."
So what kept me from bringing up the issue this morning? Well, was it kind concern for her: not wanting to disturb her sleep, not wanting to disturb her exercise time? Or was it just the whole fear/avoidance thing?
We all know that the "kind concern" stuff is just a way I rationalize my avoidance.
Here are my fears (nothing new here): I fear the turmoil of another protracted argument followed by the silent treatment. I fear divorce. I fear "losing" the argument. I fear a new milestone where she refuses to see my needs/wants as legitimate, and what effect that will have on me and my desire to stay committed to the relationship. I fear appearing vulnerable to her.
So, with all those fears banging around, I start avoiding the conversation. I start rationalizing. "I want it to be a clean issue, so that she can't deflect with the 'you lied' argument or some other tangent." "I want to bring it up in the evening, because she's more...something (receptive? calm? I don't know. She's also sometimes more tired, more stressed, less receptive, just wants to veg out in front of the tv then.)"
I just hate that I am making this so frickin' hard. Why can't I just talk to her? What is wrong with me?
Hairy, Bite that bullet, brutha! Email her...it will be easier.
Write: I'm sorry for fibbing this morning when you asked if I was mad. Of course I was lying and you knew it. I lie to you quite frequently because: 1. I am a nonconfrontational person and 2. I am deathly afraid of your anger. However, the time has come that I am ready to start getting real in this M. I'd like to talk more about what is missing from our relationship tonight, after D5 is in bed.
I know it's hard. Shoot it's hard for me and I'm not a nonconfronter. Many times my heart would be hammering and I'd be on the verge of chickening out when I'd blurt it out and we'd go from there. The difference in my situation is that MrH is like you..fairly open to talking about his shortcomings (to a point).
Good luck and stick with it! You can do this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The advice that I would offer is that when she asked you if you were mad at her you could have truthfully said "I seem preoccupied because I am mad at myself because I feel like there are important issues that I need to discuss with you but I fear your reaction.". In a way this would be more "true" than simply saying "Yes, I am mad at you.".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
HP: Although I feel more comfortable writing thoughts like that down and giving them to the recipient, I have found, over time, that it just doesn't work with her. She ends up focusing on the wrong thing, or taking something I wrote the wrong way. I think I need to talk to her face to face, precisely because I find it so difficult to do.
Mojo: I think that's a good and very accurate way of putting it. Yes, I am angry at her, but I have been much more angry at myself for my weakness over the years, and especially, recently.
HD you're pissed off at the situation at yourself and her. It is painfull to stuff all of that and tell her its just the coffee. At some point you're going to find stuffing the truth more painfull than the possible concequences of telling it.
