Thanks for your kindness Cat. That was kind of a rhetorical statement. Nobody is flawed - we are all perfect beings. We can improve our ability to relate to each other, and this is where I'm putting my focus. Even my kindness in these situations poses problems for interactions. To a certain degree holding this position creates so much adversity that it minimizes the opportunity to connect. This is not to say it's a bad position, it's just that it's something I have control over and can influence the situation.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Well guys, it's been a while. Just wanted to give a brief update. Things are not much different. The MC is proving to be a bit stressful for me. The counselor has pointed out many places where my W can become accountable for her own happiness and not blame me for her failure to be happy, but she is doing little to put this into action. On the other hand, the counselor has taken issue with the extreme polarization of the positions my W and I have taken. She has been pushing for some kind of compromise.
W has ceased contact with my cousin, supposedly. I don't really believe that she has, and I certainly don't believe that she has given up the affair. She's simply pining away for him without contact, blaming and resenting me for her choice not to remain in contact with him. I have made it pretty clear to her that I do not want someone that has committed to destroying my son's family in order to further their self gratification as a friend. I will never have a relationship with my cousin again for this reason, and if my W should end things now, without ever getting the marriage to a place where we can evaluate it at its best, I don't see much between us other than civility in our coparenting. So she's trying to appease me in order to get out of the marriage in a good way. So this is a bit frustrating.
We seem to be still in a power struggle, and this is not something I'm happy about at all. I'm doing all I can to maintain my focus on myself and what I want for my life, yet my actions are interpretted and twisted into "controlling behavior" by my W. I'm honestly not trying to control her, and it's difficult territory for me because I don't want to even think about trying to dispute her beliefs, but I don't want her to believe her judgments over my honest statement of motive. Again, frustrating.
Yet the biggest problem now seems to be this whole battle over whether we should end things and how and when, etc. I don't want to participate in proceding towards a divorce if it's not something I want. I contributed to the erosion of our marriage, to its disfuntion, but I refuse to contribute to the destruction of it at this time. W spends her time focusing on getting me to understand that we don't work. She sabotages an interaction and then points out how this demonstrates that we don't work. She gets frustrated with me for making a mistake and then points out how this proves we don't work. This means to her that we should divorce and be done. I agree with her that we aren't working at the moment, but she doesn't leave it there, she tries to prove that it's because of a conflict in our core personalities that we don't work. "You shouldn't have to change who you are in order for us to work - and I don't think you can anyway."
This powerstruggle is not where I want to be. I want to just enjoy life together, regardless of where we are headed. I try and do this. W is making herself miserable, living in a fantasy world both in and out of the affair. She is demonizing me to the point where she says she cringes when she hears me walk in the door. She says she is utterly miserable. At some point she will have to recognize that SHE is making herself miserable, because I don't have the power to do so. And the relief she is expecting from this feeling by way of a divorce is fantasy as well. But it's up to her to find this out, and I'm not sure I'll still be open to a future with her once she does.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddle, you're back! Congratulations on the gains you have made. Yes, you have made gains. You and your W are able to live together "civilly", work together at raising your son, are still going to MC, and you mention no abusive incidents. That is progress. All this and you've managed to keep your self respect too! That's awesome! But, you sound like you are pondering the next move? Maybe it's a good time to look at what's going right and ask yourself "why is it going right". What are you doing that has resulted in the improvements here? Look at when you and your W are getting along best, what is happening? What can you do to get more of those things going? What have you been doing to keep yourself where you are rather than backsliding which would be so easy to do. Is there any small thing you could do that might help to move to where you want to be even just a tiny bit? Small victories can create bigger ones. Keep your eye on small gains versus the bigger prize. These are my thoughts for you today. You sound great!
You and your W are able to live together "civilly", work together at raising your son, are still going to MC, and you mention no abusive incidents.
Just because I haven't mentioned them doesn't mean they're not there. There was one incident fairly recently where I decided I was done being walked on - W made a nasty comment about how I am weak and don't stand up to her. So I did. I told her I was disconnecting the computer, that I was not going to allow my home to be defiled by the ongoing contact any longer. I got hit in the back of the head, a nasty scratch on my neck, etc. I documented it all, even called the NYS domestic violence hotline only to be blown off. I called the police station to find out whether I could file a report without pressing charges, and found out I could, but later found out that if I did that W would have to be arrested. I gave in to the desire to protect W from the consequences of her behavior, and didn't file a report. She later confided that she believes that I push all her buttons and make her do things like that.
There has certainly been progress and there have been gains in the sitch. Just funny you said what you did. Our son is great despite everything. He would be much better off if things were different, but he's great now. We don't hear "stop fighting guys" all that often anymore. Just to clarify, he says this even when we're having a debate without anger or upset.
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That is progress. All this and you've managed to keep your self respect too! That's awesome! But, you sound like you are pondering the next move?
Always.
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Maybe it's a good time to look at what's going right and ask yourself "why is it going right". What are you doing that has resulted in the improvements here? Look at when you and your W are getting along best, what is happening? What can you do to get more of those things going? What have you been doing to keep yourself where you are rather than backsliding which would be so easy to do. Is there any small thing you could do that might help to move to where you want to be even just a tiny bit? Small victories can create bigger ones. Keep your eye on small gains versus the bigger prize. These are my thoughts for you today. You sound great!
This is tricky for me to see, because there seem to be a great many things happening at once. It's hard to know what the causal link really is. I'm working at it though. Thanks for checking in.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddle, I think concentrating on finding the causal link to the problems is kind of hopeless and honestly overwhelming. Look for the causal link to what's going right and repeat it! I know it's an odd way approach it but that IS solution focused thinking. Watch in the next little while and document what is going right and what you did to get it there. Those may be the links that help in getting things on track. Think small and forget the big picture for now. Take care!
Muddle, I forgot to mention this, although you probably already realize it, you walked into her trap! It's the same one she sets all the time. She insults your manhood, you decide to show her who the man is and bingo you've got an object tossed at your head!Hey what would happen if she called you a weak kneed weinie and you replied " I'm sorry I'm not the man you think you need, that must be very frustrating for you sometimes..." Would she clutch her chest and keel over? Just a curve you could toss her sometime, beats getting a caved in skull! Oh, and if I recall, you did tell her the next time she assaulted you in any way you'd lay charges and have backed down. What does that do to the dynamics? Just some things for you to ponder. Hang tough and I'm so glad your son is thriving despite all this upset in your lives. I think it shows what a great dad he really has there! Take care.
Hey Muddle, I just thought I would read your five pages to see why you have been giving me such great advice. Now I know, besides you and your W living together we are dealing with the same prob. You again have inspired me to keep trucking on, and I hope the advice you give me is helping you realize your goals and you can keep focused on your problem. If she insults your manhood again, look back over your sitch, someone who is not strong would have left her from day one. You are one of the strongest people I have seen soo far. strength comes in numbers and you, my friend, have a large army supporting you on line here. Oh, BTW, standing ovation for not putting a hand on her. I probably wouldn't had my W arrested either, but at least you called. I think your S would of been affected by his mom going to jail. Again, Thanks
M-31 W-25 S-1 1/2 bomb dropped 9-01-06,and repeating over and over "I, not events, have the power to make me happy or unhappy today. I can choose which it shall be." Groucho Marx.
Hello, my sweet Muddle. I am glad to see you posting again, sad that your W is still a fcuking lunatic. Someday her blinders will be off, and she will be horrified, horrified at what she had and how she abused it. I hope that day is sooner than later my friend.
\o/\o/\o/ cheering for you.
Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing! Is 43:18-19
If it seems slow in coming, wait. It's on its way. It will come right on time. Hab 2:3
Hi muddle its been a while since I was on here too. Like November a while. How are you doing? I've read a bit of your posts and I see a lot of focus on your marriage. Thats great but what about you? You gave me a lot of good advice and I am doing great from it. I "gave up" on trying to fix my marriage and focused on finding happiness in me. All of a sudden I was happy. Now that has had an effect on my W. I don't know if you remember and don't blame you if you don't but she had said to me she wasn't attracted to me and would never be again. That changed yesterday. I posted my update in Divorced but not done because I have found that my sitch wasn't from an affair. I am glad to be here because I have hope in life and I want to give that to others just like you did with me. Keep on keepin on good man.
Thanks for dropping in guys. WI, you're right, I did say I would file a report next time something happened. I backed down. I didn't uphold my own boundary. I struggled with it for a while. I am not really happy with the outcome, but I made the choice to let her off the hook. It'll probably bite me in the ass some day, but I won't beat myself up about it.
James, thanks for taking the time to read through my sorry story. I'm glad you see the parallels, and I trust you will make progress in your sitch faster than I have in mine (if you can really call anything in my sitch progress). As for strength, people often pick and choose what they see as signs of strength and/or weekness, and I tend to think this is a very selfserving thing. W wants to see me as week because it makes it easier to justify what she's doing, you want to see me as strong because you understand from personal experience that it takes strength and resilience to still be here. Thanks for reinforcing my belief that what I am doing, taking the hard path, is a sign of strength.
BI, I hope too that one day she'll see things differently. I have come to realize, and I hope it's an accurate realization not just a self serving one, that both my M and the A are fantasy Rs for my W. I wonder if someday she'll distinguish the difference between her judgments and reality. I have no doubt that should things end in divorce it will be much easier for her to maintain this idea that I am a "psycho controlling a$$hole" than for her to accept that I am a person who was trying to do the right thing despite the fact that it was uncomfortable for her (hey it's not exactly pleasurable for me either).
Ben, I'm glad to hear from you again too. I'm doing great! Really, I am. My life has become far more full, despite this situation, and I'm really happy about this. I have been working out, commuting on my mountain bike (even in temps in the teens) as often as possible, playing in a band at least once a week, spending a lot of quality time with my son, reading a lot, etc. I can't say I'm surprised that your "giving up" has led to hope in your M. I sometimes think that's what it would take for mine. I'm curious why you say your sitch wasn't from an A. The attraction issue is one that's prominant in my sitch as well. It seems that in my W's perception, either I'm a pushover and cater too much to her or I'm controlling.
Well, this leaves us with this weekend. Yesterday things went pretty poorly. I had planned to do some running around, and had a couple things I wanted to accomplish for myself. I have a bit of a nasty cold that I'm nursing, so I went back to sleep after making breakfast for my son. I woke up about 9:45 and ran out to the grocery store to get breakfast stuff. I came home and brought W breakfast in bed. She seemed fairly happy to get a plateful of decadent breakfast stuff in bed. I tried to make a plan for the day with her. She's starting a new job tomorrow and needed to get some clothes and shoes. This was a priority for me, and so I kept my afternoon open for this reason. I told my W this, and also told her that I wanted to do some cleaning in the house, wanted to do some work on the bike and go grocery shopping. She didn't contribute anything, so I told her I was going upstairs to clean. I spent some time doing this and then S4 asked if we could have a picnic lunch inside. I thought this was a great idea, and ran it by W. She said that there was nothing in the house for her to eat. I told her I could run out and do the shopping before lunch so she could participate. She would not tell me what she wanted. So I backed off, basically frustrated that she wouldn't and doesn't take responsibility for her most basic need - eating - rather she blames me that there's nothing in the house for her to eat when it's her preferences that keep her from eating whatever it is that S4 and I are able to eat everyday. All through these conversations, she's saying things like "I don't matter" "What I think doesn't matter" What I want doesn't matter" - to which I answered pretty consistently "to who?" This stuff kills me - I keep seeing her act as if her own needs don't matter enough for her to speak up about them and then she blames me for her not getting them met, and whenever I point this out, she sees it as me blaming her. I want her to eat, I want her to be healthy, I want her to be happy. So I went upstairs and had a nice indoor picnic with S4. Then I talked to her again about plans - where we would go to shop for her, when, etc. She kept leaving the subject to focus on some defect of mine. Underlying all of this is her belief that I am the boss of the family, I hold all of the authority, etc., etc. I told her I was going up to take a shower. I showered, we talked again. Finally, 4:15 rolled around. I told W that we had better get moving, otherwise we would never be able to get everything done. W told S4 that we were going to go and get him clothes. I vetoed the idea because I said she was the priority - we didn't have much money for this and needed to take care of her. His clothes could wait. She got upset at this and used it to support her belief that I am controlling. She sucked me into another of these conversations where we got nowhere and eventually it got to the point where dinner had to be the next thing on the agenda. She wouldn't talk about where to go. I talked to S4 about it, and we decided on a place. W didn't want to eat there, so S4 and I up and left. We got about 10 minutes down the road and W called and asked if I would come home and get her. She wanted to come now. When we got back there she tells me that she was hurt that I let it go that easily, that I didn't try harder to get her to come with us. I told her that I thought I had fought far longer than I should have.
We had a nice evening together afterwards. Watched a movie together and had a nice time overall. This morning she was in a mood. I think she wakes up from her fantasy sleep dreams to the horrible fantasy reality and it puts her in a bad mood. I need to avoid her in the early part of the day. I told her last night that I had plans to go to the gym early, and we had made plans together to go do her shopping at 10. I was not feeling well enough to go to the gym when I woke up, so I skipped it, and went downstairs with my list to get her input on the groceries so I could take care of that before we went out. She got angry with me, started going on and on about how she didn't know whether we were still going. She wasn't even out of bed at 9:15, so leaving the house by 10 was unlikely. I had taken a shower, and before I jumped in I told S4 he could join me if he wanted to, that he should come in at X time. I've been working on getting him to pay attention to the clock - something he loves doing - and also owning the consequences of not doing what he knows he needs to. So he never made it into the shower. W asked me if he had had a shower. I told her that he hadn't made it in. She said "so that's it, he doesn't get a shower?" "No" I told her "he doesn't - that's the consequence of not doing what he agreed to." Well, she got upset with this, telling me that I was being controlling, that I wasn't asking for her opinion, etc, but was acting like I had absolute authority. I told her "nothing I say is absolute, because I don't have sole authority. You have just as much authority as I do. If you want to debate this, than let me know." Basically, she was getting on my case because I didn't make it clear to her that she could give me her input - something she generally doesn't have the slightest problem contributing when she wants to put me down. To me, giving her permission to give me her input would be acknowledging her idea that I have absolute authority - which I don't. I made a decision, as she often does. She's just so busy focusing on proving this point - that I'm the bad guy, I'm the enemy - that she acts a certain way and then blames me for making her act that way.
Well, we went out and actually had a nice morning. Once we got most of the shopping done, we went to Old Navy for S4 (we had spent less on the stuff for W than anticipated, so it made sense). As we were checking out, I asked that cashier if he could point me in the direction of the Payless shoe store. W walked out of the store, mortified. She later told me that she was so embarassed by my asking this. She held it against me for the rest of the time we were out. Blaming me for her bad feelings. The afternoon went downhill from there. After this S4 and I were to go to my mothers, W is staying home. As we pulled up to the house she asked if S4 was going to miss her. He eventually said yes. I told her that I would miss her too. She said "how can that be? We always fight." I told her that our behavior didn't define her, and that we had good interactions too, like earlier in the day. I said something like "it's all about what you focus on" - to which she responded "uh huh, you keep telling yourself that."
Well, I'm not really sure what went well there. W is very angry with me because she is so focused on the fact that I'm not agreeing to go forward with divorce as friends right now, and her method of justifying divorcing is to make herself as miserable as she can be and blame it on the relationship and me. Being miserable is functional for her, she believes there's a payoff to it. I will not divorce under these circumstances. Until I get to the point where it's what I actually want, I'm not going to persue it. Tough. She's got bad feelings? She's got misery? She's got to deal with it. Nice little standoff, eh?
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
