Still pushing onwards!

[attorneytom]

Everyone is different I suppose.. but it seems that she either has no idea she is crossing what should be a boundary to you or is intentionally doing it.

I would treat it like you would a child to some extent.. there is certain behavior that is not tolerated or acceptable.. there are certain things we dont say or do to another person (you). Whatever they are in your sitch (again up to you)it is your role to make sure they (your boundaries) are communicated.

Again, if it upsets someone else that you point out they have crossed a boundary in a firm but polite manner.. too bad for them.

Tom

[MuddleThrough]

I think AT is dead on here. Don't take the response you anticipate into account (predicting a response is something that should be avoided anyway). Make sure you communicate your boundaries assertively and consistently.

Don't allow her to cross your boundaries a few times before pointing it out, do it as soon as it happens. If you start to have an emotional reaction to something she says, use this as a sign that something isn't right, and try and clarify whether a boundary has in fact been crossed or if you are reacting emotionally for another reason.

In the example you gave it seems to me that her initial question was an attack. Was your response a parry, or were you really seeking clarification of what she meant? If you felt attacked you should have stated this immediately.

I get the sense that your W felt disrespected by you leaving the magazines in the house, so she came after you with the intention of countering your "attack." Maybe this isn't the sort of situation where a boundary needs to be enforced. Maybe you could have acknowledged that she was upset, and tried to validate her feelings. Underneath it all is a woman who feels mistreated because her space wasn't respected. Had you acknowledged this, you might have made a connection instead of heaping more pain onto the pile.

I think the key to this stuff really is being assertive. Learn when exactly your boundaries are being crossed and the enforce them. The ultimate goal of boundary enforcement is not to shut the other person down, but to redirect both of your energy into a common channel, so that you both exist comfortably side by side. If you look at things this way, you both have energy that moves in a certain way, validation and boundary enforcement can be tools to acheive this goal in different situations.

[whatisis]

Thanks guys, that helps. Sometimes you are just so "into" the dynamics of the sitch you have trouble seeing the forest for the trees. Last night, I did not understand what she was saying and was seeking clarification. But the tone, of course, was "attacking", as you say Muddle, "you have wronged me by leaving those magazines there". Well, in my eyes I haven't wronged anybody because number 1 I moved them from the front hall because she was having guests in that day, not just because there was no room in the re-cycle. I wanted her to feel proud and not embarassed when her company arrived. Now, of course, she has no idea that was my intent so that may have added to any emotional reaction I had. I felt it wasn't worth getting into at the time. I try to give the benefit of the doubt in these instances and probably should realize that's not working with this person. Tonight she is in a rather pleasant mood and at the table we were discussing with D13 how she could get downstairs at a reasonable time in the morning. At one point D threw out a remark that W bit on and they began bantering, which took us away from the solution we were attempting to get to. I also know how easily these little forays turn into W feeling attacked, so I said "Excuse me, I'm just wondering whether this conversation is taking us to where we want to be?" D said "No, it's not", I said "what do we have to do to resolve the issue" D said "get back to talking about it" Done! W had no negative reaction to that little intervention and we carried on to a successful conclusion. Something went right there, I think I dealt with the dynamic of what was taking place versus who was to blame for that dynamic. Live and learn. I'll have to start thinking about how I can enforce my boundaries without being a prick while also being sensitive to her needs at the same time. Thanks again.

[osu43130]

I just wanted to say I am sorry for not being able to keep up with your sitch lately. I have been completely tied up with UA and Jazzgtr. Jazz reminds me of CM and I when we were both acting like idiots so I have been taking the abuse like you guys did for me.

I hope you are doing alright brother.

Again I am sorry and I just wanted to say say thanks to you and Muddle because you were two of the first people to help me out here.

Later,
O

[osu43130]

Had to add to fav's

[whatisis]

No prob, OSU! I mean when bags of magazines is about as exciting as my sitch gets, I don't blame people for not dropping by! Actually, I did tell her this morning "maybe if something nice ever came out of your mouth that might make a difference", that's kind of dramatic isn't it? Maybe I should get one of those red leather muzzles for myself. Would CM be proud of me?
Tonight has actually been quite nice, she's in a good mood and actually served me a dessert, a nice gesture! I phoned and asked her to bring home the dinner too, and she was quite willing and remembered my vegetarian diet. But, the night is still young, maybe I could dump all those magazines out of the bag and leave them all over the house, that might liven things up a bit!
Thanks for checking in and, yes, you've come a long way OSU, your family (including W) should be proud.

[stubborn]

Does that mean I can hijack in here too?

Whatsis you'll love this:
said goodnight to spouse last night, kiss on her cheek, very little response from her, but not bad, just minimal. I go to bed and she has left a note on my pillow:
Things I like about you:
then she lists things ranging from "you prepare food" to "you are compassionate" etc
The list was about 10 things long...all positive and accurate. I'm quite sure she still plans to have a sleepover Sat night but, gee, she likes me. I really do see it as a positive event, especially since it indicates she is moving beyond demonizing me and seeing only bad things. I just wonder WTF this comes from?

Don't you just want to yell "look I love you so quit being an idiot and let's go on with our lives!" I DO SO love her and she is SO driving me Fing NUTS....onward...

[sofaraway]

Hey whatisis, I sent a link to your thread to a psdavis over in newcomers. Not sure if you are ready to or not, but this guy could use to be taken underwing. His sitch is similar to yours but he is over in newcomers instead of here.If you can, please check in on him.

Ian

[whatisis]

Well, I thought I'd spice up my thread a bit and do some snooping in my W's emails I stopped doing that before because they were really boring! But every once in a while I take a quick peek. They serve to remind me of how twisted and depressed her mind really is. It tends to shock me back to a place where I can be more objective about things. It gives me a little insight into her R with OP as well. OP likes to send her these uplifting messages, you know, quotes, poems, stories all about people seeing the good and not the bad blah blah blah. Yup, she's my W's AD. She's adopted a sick puppy and has this mistaken belief that she will nurse it back to health. But, W doesn't want to be nursed back to health, she sees it as too far beyond her capacities so her replies tend to accentuate how pathetic the "optimistic" crowd is, she legitimizes why she is as depressed as she is "sure it's my fault I have complaints, I should change...nobody's allowed to be weak..."blah blah blah. What a sick and sad way to live your life. OP is just as sad as she keeps up this pathetic attempt to be my W's good side...Gee, do you think as long as she doesn't have to develop her own good side then she won't? This little scenario keeps W hooked into OP as she can't see herself able to keep herself going. Wow, that must create resentment, anger and helplessness! Damn, it's better to be me!
OK, no more snooping.

[whatisis]

Well, Whatis walked away from one today. It is amazing how such little annoyances can so quickly turn into full scale brawls...if we let them. W was in a nasty mood due to normal day to day chores, I empathize but... She began making nasty remarks about something she percieved I should have done and didn't. I felt my blood starting to boil but before making a snarky response I said "I am going to take a deep breath and walk away, I will not respond to this" and walked away. Now, in hindsight, I should have added that her communication was inappropriate and told her what I would have liked but I feel pretty good about holding back and telling her that I was walking away from a scrap. Afterwards, she calmed down and we had a nice lunch as a family. I spoke at the table and mentioned that chores where everyones responsibility, not just parents. I mentioned that mom comes home from her dance class and finds four loads of laundry waiting for her and that is not fair. She explained what would be helpful to her.It ended well so, I guess, it was a victory of sorts. Btw laundry was not her issue with me, it was something she felt should be in the garbage but had been sitting in a cupboard for 15 years! Somehow, that's my responsibility???? Well, water under the bridge, it was just something to snark about and I happened to be there! What is is!I think my response, although not perfect, was an improvement. Damn, it's hard not to swing back with a hurtful reply.