Maybe you help this cycle to an extent by keeping his shortcomings in front of his face, which reminds him of his guilt, even though your intentions may be good, KWIM? One way you might do this is by keeping the sex issue on the front burner – could he associate your need to have sex with all his other shortcomings and guilt, sort of a Pavlovian response
Wow, that is so right on the money. I'm almost positive that is exactly what I did to H, and MJ reminds me of myself in this case. His guilt makes his depression worse and thus the sex is crappy and so on and so on. That's what I was getting at by not always focusing so much on the negative. Talking and analyzing it to death often makes things worse. Personal experience with that horrible tactic. I've learned to appreciate H for what he does/is willing to do in the SL. And my attitude change is evident to H. And you know what, he states he is extremely attracted to me now. Go figure. I stopped making him fee guilty and our M has definitely seen improvements. Again, the SL is not fixed, but he is initiating and showing desire which goes a long way in my book. I think Cobra has a great point that you may be stuck in a perpetual cycle.
He has told me that he knows that he loves me because he hates to disappoint me. Maybe on some level he is choosing to disappoint me in order to feel his love.
I don't get this reasoning at all. I think you are way over-analyzing instead of looking at the most obvious and simplest answer: that your H feels like he is disappointing you, it is causing guilt and depression, the SL suffers, and the cycle begins.
Hi IHJ Wasn't sure if you were directing that at me or MJ but figured I'd comment.
Quote:
I have noticed that my H seems to do something hurtful towards me, and the resultant guilt he feels makes him want to make up for this, which drives his sexuality. IOw, it goes like this: Hurt IHJ...feel bad...want to make up for it...feel sexual.
Not in my case. He'd want to make up for it but not in a sexual way. Can't relate to that one. At least not until the final "hurt LFL" bomb of him leaving. Not the best tactic on his part but in the end we both reached our "crucible" in a sense and have been able to build from there. It's true that sometimes you need to hit rock bottom before you can start climbing again.
I don't get this reasoning at all. I think you are way over-analyzing instead of looking at the most obvious and simplest answer: that your H feels like he is disappointing you, it is causing guilt and depression, the SL suffers, and the cycle begins.
This can all be taken one step further… why is this cycle even occurring in the first place? I think Mojo understands that she has certain intimacy issues and that her H does too. But I’m not so sure HE really understands his issues. Could all this be a dance to avoid feeling intimate and vulnerable, something neither learned to experience as a child and which feels very uncomfortable now as an adult? The problem though is that intimacy is what they want, yet they push it away when they get it (this applies to my W and I, and as far as I can tell, everyone else on this board).
Hi LFL ( hands you a welcoming chocolate basket)... The cycle I spoke of would not be the same for you and MJ, now that I think of it, because you and she would still feel HD in response to the hurt. But regardless, there's this cycle of hurt, guilt, and sexuality that somehow needs to be broken. And it sounds like you have had some success by not inducing more guilt...perhaps the greatest success comes from the radical honesty approach.
I think Mojo understands that she has certain intimacy issues and that her H does too. But I’m not so sure HE really understands his issues. Could all this be a dance to avoid feeling intimate and vulnerable, something neither learned to experience as a child and which feels very uncomfortable now as an adult?
Of course. But I'm not sure how much insight is needed in terms of delving into what happened in childhood as much as him realizing that what he is doing is simply avoidance/fear of intimacy. If he can admit that, it would be a great start. Why he has a fear of intimacy is interesting but I don't think vital to fixing the problem. The psychoanalysis viewpoint has shown that one does not spontaneously cure oneself with this newfound knowledge/insight of FOO. In fact, it often can make things worse because people can start to feel victimized, traumatized, etc about their early life experiences. And then staying in that mental place is simply another form of avoidance. Not dealing with the here and now. So I see your points, but what does that solve? Many people could use this newfound FOO insight and say "see, this is why I am the person I am. A,b,c, happened to me so I am who I am. That's my personality. Deal with it." Maybe your W is doing such things. I think putting the problems (fear of intimacy, for instance) in the terms of behaviors instead of personality traits born out of FOO makes the issues much easier to handle and thus attack head on. Sometimes a good dose of reality (what would life be like without my spoues) for instance, often in combination with some good meds, can be enough to jumpstart the healing process. It was in my case.
Yes, I think this is more like what is happening in my relationship too. Only I would definitely say that it is my H's way of getting my attention. My whole way of being is some version of "distracted fantasy land" and my H has been known to say that the thing he hates most is being ignored. If I try to be objective I would say that both things are true. I tend towards being inattentive and he needs too much attention. Being married to him makes me wish I could be a 19th century woman married to a seafaring man. My life feels much easier when he is out of town with his job.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Many people could use this newfound FOO insight and say "see, this is why I am the person I am. A,b,c, happened to me so I am who I am. That's my personality. Deal with it."
This is exactly what my H does say. We talk about dysfunctional FOO stuff all the time. Remember he is a Type 4. It is one of his favorite topics of conversation. I can't tell you how many times I have heard him say "Is it any wonder that I am so f*cked up?". We both know exactly why he avoids intimacy. His father was a cold emotionally repressed hard*zz who rarely showed affection and his mother was a super clingy bucket of fusion who tried to get her emotional needs met through her children because her H was unavailable. My H felt like he had no privacy growing up. Also he the second born in between two sisters who are pretty much clones of MsHD in terms of personality which kind of gave him a bad attitude towards women in general. So my H has conflicting needs for a lot of space because of his clingy mother who he doesn't respect and a lot of attention because of his distant father who he does respect.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
One time I brought up the topic of his inability to comfort me in a calm non-confrontational manner. He said "Yeah, I can't help being that way but I can completely understand why you would not want to be with me for that reason.".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I am trying to empathize with someone who is depressive." It's kind of like trying to empathize with someone who is in a coma
This reminds me of my definition of living with a depressed person... it's like trying to play with a dead dog. No matter how many times you throw the ball, that dog just won't run.
