(back from Hawaii and really had a great time. H's Godparents were celebrating their 50th anniversary so of course it was a very touching and positive experience. Heard many tales of marital woe from some guests, most of whom stayed married, btw).
Your question, BND, assumes some control over the R or the behavior of the WAS. Some of the answers here suggest that IF the LBSer "stands for the M", it will effect the outcome. I am not certain that is true in MANY cases. SOME cases of course. But if a WAS is really gone, what is the LBSer doing?
I have learned a few things that I THINK I am sure of....first off, the "old rules" of what I thought I'd never put up with don't all apply because some of them stemmed largely from pride. 2nd, major HUGE forgiveness is needed in most long term marriages in order for them to survive happily. Many people stay married but also stay in horrible behavior patterns of continuing their conflict/War and measuring, and getting more bitter by the day. NO forgiveness is ever modelled for the children, nor is any conflict resolution. These tools are essential but many many adults lack them and are passing on this deficit to their children, as their parents may have done to them. Taking the WAS back under the wrong conditions is to be avoided if possible, in my opinion and for many reasons.
When I think of the kids and divorce and marriage, in General--not necessarily my M, I have to say something else. ....If the WAS comes back from guilt, or for financial reasons, or b/c OW/OM dumped them, or for any of the "wrong" reasons, you could well be worse off than if they just faded away into their alien worlds. Otherwise, sometimes, the kids see horrible mistreatment/mental cruelty/boundary violations GALORE, and then supposed reconciliation which ends up being nothing more than a marital separation within a home and "intact" family....
Look, I appear to be IN my M and my h is saying most of what I need to hear. Not all, but most. Things look promising, (yes I am wary of jinxing myself, but aren't we all?). So it's not with complete bias I say all this.
If the WAS has left but we remain fixated on maneuvering/manipulating the sitch into a reconciliation, then in a way aren't we causing ourselves pain? Isn't some of this self-inflicted, if the WAS says "I want out" and then LEAVES, and says nothing that shows real indecision about the M (as opposed to "newness" confusion about how the money will work, or where to live, etc.) then in the WAS' mind WE are the ones in denial and revising present day reality.
The WAS usually does revise the M big time, but so do the LBSers in the reverse, when they first reminisce about the M. Truth be told, most of us know down deep that there were some bad things in the marriage before, and that there are at least a few good things about the WAS being gone, and for sure we know it's GREAT that they're gone if we can avoid alien spew...so why do so many hang on when no rope/line/thread is present to hold at all? In some cases it is losing the familiar and known, and Deep, terrifying fears that keep the LBSer rooted to the ground they thought they knew.
Sorry if this offends, but I tire of the claims that somehow this all equals great love or committment on the part of the LBSer who remains fixated on reconciling in the face of repeated "abuse", but gets a little righteous about it, as if the LBSer who finally detaches and GAL loves the WAS less. In reality, in that example the LBSer who says "enough" and moves on doesn't love their WAS less, they are simply healthier.
No matter what, with the Possible exception of seriously harming her physically, My younger sister would have taken her ex back no matter what he did to her, if he had come back. Is that really love? It has been over 10 years now, and she is still deeply hurt and wounded, and somewhat bitter....does this mean she must have really really loved him? More than a woman who moves on because she wants to salvage what life still has to offer her? I don't think so. I think my sister's marriage was much less than she claimed it to be---I love my sister and she deserved better, BUT-- I often wondered about her H's feelings for her. They supposedly "never fought"...I always thought that was a bad sign. Then He left and she fell apart, and even she admitted back then her greatest emotion was FEAR...followed closely by a piercing sense of rejection and loss which we all have come to know. But you see, that is not necessarily love. ANd if it is not love, or is not all about love, then some of it may be fear, terror, pride, etc. And if that dictates our course of action for too long, then WE ARE the crazy ones. It's one thing for the WAS to be selfish....but it's another to let someone keep hurting us even when they've moved on and aren't even registering our existence....we are in effect hurting ourselves, over and over again. That has to be crazy if they've already moved on!
Unlike some of you, I did not want H back MORE when he was a jerk. On the contrary, I wanted to slap him with papers. If he had not shown regret and made attempts at the M, if I had seen NO signs of hope or regret or love from him, I would NOT have wanted him more....but it would have clarified so much for me....
By the way, when I was with H this past week it was like a 2nd honeymoon--only better, since we weren't broke jokes....STILL, I had a few moments wherein I "mentioned" to H that I was still dealing with unexpected surprise anger. Sometimes he handled it well. Mostly he stayed silent, or asked me not to dwell....
I don't want those moments of anger to spoil our time together, but there is so much left to heal and or resolve....Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for what seems to be happening. H sure talks of our future in great long term detail, very hopeful and optimistic, dream house, great work hours, trips, etc. Just sometimes I feel as if the past 2 years are being wiped out and I am expected to do what with all that? He wasn't gone for one crazy weekend...
I know it won't be forgotten. I have a working brain. But maybe down the road, with his support and some dang work (why am I the one reading the self help books and getting counselling? Is THAT insane or what?!)--maybe someday I can face those moments and say, "yes that did suck, but it's different now and that was long ago..." sorry to ramble on. Just feeling as if some of the answers posted were written more from fear than from reason or faith. "WHEN YOU OPERATE IN FEAR, YOU ARE NOT OPERATING IN FAITH".
I really liked that saying for those dark moments. Honestly, the very last thing I want is NOT a divorce. There are worse things than divorce. I would prefer a divorce if my other option is my H returning in a bitter or begrudging way, re-injuring my heart and prolonging a miserable relationship -with an audience of kids to boot. In other words, THIS M is dead and maybe and hopefully the new one will thrive as I hope and pray....but the idea of going back to what the M was when the bombs were falling and my heart dropped into my stomach repeatedly, ummm, no thanks....
There is at least one thing worse than being alone.....---it is wishing you were alone.
This has has been on my mind. Yet I see I have hijacked. Can someone tell me how to put this on my thread at "piecing", or do I need to retype the parts I want? Thanks and good night!
j-
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
