Locked out of here. Burg: I know I've got the power/confidence to do the whole "superman" thing, it's just a matter of getting past that inertia that's keeping me here.
I have to get back to work right now, but I wanted to start a new thread so Lil wouldn't start one for me, (the busybody).
Huh? I didn't hear you... I was outside washing your car, doing your grocery shopping, and straightening out your underwear drawer so your W wouldn't get all over your case. What was the brand of chocolate cake mix you wanted me to buy?
I know I've got the power/confidence to do the whole "superman" thing...
And you know it's not really a superman thing because you put it in quotes. It's just totally being who you are, that's a facet that you have within you that dying to come out and play. It's a helluva lot easier to be you with someone you trust and who trusts you, of course.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
I've been thinking about your latest description with your wife, when she was getting on you about DD5 getting dressed, and treating you like a child, etc., and you then made the comment that you stopped arguing with her, and just got all quiet like... and then she simmered down. Remember that?
Do THAT more. Do THAT all the time with her. Go about your business in your world, and treat her like that all the time. But not in an angry way. Just in a quiet, determined, firm but still approachable kind of way.
THAT type of behavior... is very appealing to the feminine. Whenever you are in doubt, remember the 'DD5/stop acting like a child' exchange, and your subsequent behavior... to remind yourself of what it feels like... and then BE THAT.
Corri, who's wondering if that post was clear as mud.
Yes, Corri, it was clear. I sometimes get in that mindframe where "silence as assent" starts nagging at me, and I jump back into the fray. But I see the value of silence, too.
And Burg, I appreciate what you're saying, too. I don't know if you recall a guy who posted on here called (I think) "csw". We often referred to him as the "man of steel" because he hardened himself to get through a WAW situation. It was truly an exercise in determination and courage. He's one of my heroes.
I don't get the sense that the point I really want to make is getting across. Maybe I'm just trying to put too fine a point on it (yep, that's me). I'm reluctant to put much personal experience into the discussion because it tends to distract me and I feel compelled to write a ream of explanatory background but maybe it will help.
In my post-bomb life, after I'd accepted that my M was over, I was very fortunate and got involved with an incredible woman. She was drawn to me, especially sexually, by the very traits and qualities that my X abhored and labelled "uncaring", "selfish", "abusive" and worse. Her acceptance led to my acceptance that this is who I am and it's as good a way to be as any. That acceptance has been fortified by experiences at various levels with other women since then and by reading the thoughts of many of the women in this forum. I'm now much more capable of the behavior you pointed out those two web videos.
The basic point I want to make is, these behaviors aren't anything I had to force myself to do to learn how to do or will myself to do...I had to *allow* myself to do them and I think that's an important distinction. I don't think it's a matter of forging internal confidence or having the willpower of a "man of steel" in order to do what has to be done. It's more a matter of accepting certain masculine facets of your personality, which are perhaps not-so-politically-correct, and embracing them as "you". Perhaps that takes courage; I don't know. I was lucky enough to experience embracing that part of myself with someone who made it incredibly easy, like falling off a log. If there's courage involved, it's whatever courage it takes to accept that there's a legitimate, primal part of yourself that you want to express in your relationship, that you *will* express that part of yourself in your relationship, and that your W will then have the opportunity to deal with who you actually are as she sees fit.
I don't know much about the NOPs' story but when I see her talk about how every time she turned around, there he was with that look in his eye and that intent on his face, I can't imagine that he willed himself to do that. I don't see him thinking, "Every time she turns around, I'm going to be there with intent." My guess is that, instead, he accepted that that's who he is and that's what he needed and that's what he was going to get. So whenever she turned around that's what she saw because that's who he was. I doubt if he willed it or forced it, he accepted it and expressed it.
So my sphincter clenches when I get the idea that you're girding your loins and putting your game face on as you prepare to deal with MrsHD. It puts me in mind of someone getting psyched up to bench press more than they ever have. She can probably sense that pushing vibration she's determined to resist, knowing that if her will power exceeds yours she'll get her way (as misguided as her way may be). If, on the other hand, you're just you, she's got nothing to push against. She can stay and deal or she can leave. She can attempt to push but it won't matter because she has no target. You being yourself isn't a matter of being with her or a different woman or all on your own. To misappropriate a phrase from Schnarch, I think that puts her in the crucible.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Burgbud, I think that was a phenomenal post. Except the parts about your sphincter clenching? Not sure what that was about, lol. Anyway, your points made a lot of sense to me. Once you accept who you are and act accordingly without apology, then I can see where that could place the other partner in their crucible. I suppose the other partner could just keep emotionally detaching to the point where it is actually you who is placed in the crucible. Do you see where that could happen? But assuming that both partners do want to meet the other's needs, at least to some degree, then they may feel the heat caused by their partner acting congruent with who they are. Whatever the outcome, I think it's definitely a necessary step in this process.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Well, this is a keeper, Burg, and I appreciate you taking the time to try to hammer it through my thick skull.
Quote:
The basic point I want to make is, these behaviors aren't anything I had to force myself to do to learn how to do or will myself to do...I had to *allow* myself to do them and I think that's an important distinction. I don't think it's a matter of forging internal confidence or having the willpower of a "man of steel" in order to do what has to be done. It's more a matter of accepting certain masculine facets of your personality, which are perhaps not-so-politically-correct, and embracing them as "you". Perhaps that takes courage; I don't know. I was lucky enough to experience embracing that part of myself with someone who made it incredibly easy, like falling off a log. If there's courage involved, it's whatever courage it takes to accept that there's a legitimate, primal part of yourself that you want to express in your relationship, that you *will* express that part of yourself in your relationship, and that your W will then have the opportunity to deal with who you actually are as she sees fit.
I don't know when you started following my thread, but you've probably read enough to know that my W can be a real ballbuster. And I don't think it's too much of a stretch to consider at least some of her expressed ideas/beliefs/observations as falling within the "radical" camp of feminists. Some of those beliefs: Men are responsible for most, if not all of the wars, crimes, and violence in the world today, and this is because of the testosterone that, simply stated, poisons their bodies. Women who model lingerie are uniformly unenlightened and are likely the targets of current or past sexual abuse; they objectify their own bodies due to low self esteem. Any book written by a man about relationships or sex has no credibility. Any book written by a woman about sex (that is pro-sex) has no credibility because the woman was likely one of the above-mentioned unenlightened abuse victims.
And it goes on and on. So the "primal" part of me, the part that is not-so-politically-correct, has been somewhat buried. It's not her fault, it's mine. Mr. People-pleaser buried the bawdy part because it led to conflict in the relationship. Mr. Conflict-avoider decided to shelve that part for what I thought was the greater good of peace within the relationship.
But you're right about it still being there. And, despite the anti-infidelity zeal here (with which I still agree, btw), I know what you're saying about getting acceptance from someone else for all those qualities your W found abhorrent. And yes, on this forum and others, I am allowed my (otherwise) despicable male sense of humor.
It's just a matter of getting to the point where I can give myself permission to be me. It's not "girding your loins and putting your game face on as you prepare to deal with MrsHD" so much as it's reaching down, dusting off, and slipping into my old skin that I'd shed a long time ago in order to squeeze myself into the "sensitive anti-chauvinist" outfit I've been wearing lately. While some aspects of it are fine and appropriate, it's also ill-fitting in places (like, dude, there is NO ROOM in the crotch!).
Anyway, I have to head out of here. Can't wait to tell my W what a great rack she has.
...Women who model lingerie are uniformly unenlightened and are likely the targets of current or past sexual abuse; they objectify their own bodies due to low self esteem.
If I had a body like that, I sure as hell wouldn't have "low self esteem".
Originally Posted By: hairdog
... While some aspects of it are fine and appropriate, it's also ill-fitting in places (like, dude, there is NO ROOM in the crotch!).
Like a cheap hotel: no ball room.
Originally Posted By: hairdog
...Anyway, I have to head out of here. Can't wait to tell my W what a great rack she has.
