Well, it was a rough session as I had predicted, but it seems ok now. My wife again said there was NO chance of us ever being together ever again..and that is a tough pill to swallow, so I wont. She knows I love her and I said in C that this (the marriage) and she were too important to me for me to just give up. I wont! If she wants out, she'll have to file the papers before I even start to believe that it is over. She agreed to another session two weeks from now and the therapist is actualy leaning towards fixing this R. My wife does not like it but is going along with it. So its a wait and see thing. It will take time if it is going to work, so I still have to be patient! If she keeps coming to the sessions, I still have hope!
One thing though, we got into the old pains a bit too much for both our likings! I know what I did wrong and she knows what she did wrong so now I would like to concentrate on what we did right! Get some of those feelings again, the good memories, the good times, and see where we go from there! My wife and I agreed to tell the therapist that we dont really want to talk about our past "failures" towards each other, but then, what does my wife want to talk about if she is so dead against fixing things?
BTW, she still wants to spend time together, just a little breather in the meantime!
No clue if anyone has any idea! Other than giving her the space she is asking for!
steph, it is good that w is going to c with you, perhaps how you should look at it is, the two of you are there to learn to have a good r, in whatever form that takes, to better raise your d together. learn to just be wifes friend, i know it is not what you want, but the sooner you accept that you may not be with her as h and w, the sooner she may realize that that is what she wants (to be your w) sometimes space just isn't enough,they need to no longer see that look in your eye that you are still holding onto them... only then can the new r begin and after all it is a new r that you want with w right. hang in there, i know the words hurt but they are just words, we have all heard them in different forms. LL
I was just reading your post on my thread, you are such an inspiration, sounds like your w does need time, it must hurt to be told that she does not want to be in thte m, but remember they say strange things. I believe in not digging up blame from the past, but I think some things have to be talked through in order for forgiveness and healing to begin.I really recomend John Gottmans book "Seven Principles of Making MArriage Work" It gives some different perspectives from Dr. Hang in there, it will all be worth it in some miraculous way that we just don't know about yet!! Sue
Thanks guys. you HAVE been a great help. I was feeling quite down but you cheared me up . Some things were said in session last night that just hurt as hell. Funny thing is, it wasn't the "I dont love you and never will" part, I am getting used to that one . It was the personal attacks. My wife brought up some pretty mean things and attacked me personally, my personality, things I had done. I have NEVER done that to her. I could easily have brought up some of her personality traits that are very hard to deal with...we all have them, but I have never done it and never will...although I felt like it last night (and still sort of do today!). My wife says she DID try to fix our marriage but you know what, it was classic "if it doesn't work, why keep doing it" stuff. Like writing me letters (when we were together) critizising me for what I did wrong or what I did NOT do! She NEVER DID anything about it...just told me I was doing everything wrong! I dont know how to explain that to her...or even if I should! Of course I was diffensive, I was being attacked. This is how it was last night again...I refused to get into it, but it still stung!
Next on the list, is my major backslide during the last week or so. I moved way too fast and started up way too many OR talks...hoping to get a feel for any progress I was making. It seems that it will be even harder now to get back to where we were only a short week ago! Remember our weekend away??? That was less than two weeks ago???
And last, I know, from my wife's words last night, that what she does fear is a reconciliation and being exactly back where we were a year ago: unhappy, frightened, confused and not wanting to hurt me again. So in order to avoid that...she figures she'll avoid me! She will not ALLOW herself to have any feelings for me out of fear of being right back where all this started!
I think the therapist also noticed, cause she is still edging towards getting us back together! Only my wife is resisting...and I dont know how to get her to resist less?
Well, that's it. Thanks everyone and have a good one!
Hi Steph, You mention that you feel things have gone downhill ... from my POV it looks like you have just levelled off again at a slightly higher plateau, but your W's basic stance has not change so she will continue to resist anything that threatens those beliefs and will express in absolutes (No chance, no way, no how, etc...) in order to re-affirm her resistance, but internally she is struggling to keep her resolve inspite noticable recent changes for the better.
I know you really don't like the idea, but I tend to agree with the others about backing off spending as much time with her. You know how much she likes the time you spend together and it has worked to a certain point but is not enough to change her beliefs yet. Time to try something different ... the ole cliche "Absence makes the heart grow fonder." So perhaps its time to give her what she asks for. Demonstrate to her that while you may prefer to be with her, you are just as content spending time without her.
I'm suggesting this based on my own experience. While like you, I continue to express that I believed the M was not over yet and as long I believed such I would to fight for it (without persuing mind you), however, I also expressed that there would be a limit to what I would be patient with and therefore there was a danger she may cross a line where I would determine the M was not worth saving and there would be a point of no return. While I was uncertain at first where that limit was, I did work on demonstrating that I no longer needed to be with her to enjoy my time and if she didn't want me around, then I would rather be doing my own thing. Even today, when we are back in a "saved" M, when she seems to get indifferent about me being around, I'll go off and make myself scarce (sometime taking D along too.) When I come back, she always changes her mood and lets me know she wants me to be around her.
Sometimes work just gets in the way of posting in a timely fashion. You manage to post again while I was still replying to your earlier one and in the more recent one you wrote:
Quote: And last, I know, from my wife's words last night, that what she does fear is a reconciliation and being exactly back where we were a year ago: unhappy, frightened, confused and not wanting to hurt me again. So in order to avoid that...she figures she'll avoid me! She will not ALLOW herself to have any feelings for me out of fear of being right back where all this started!
Steph, Now that you have heard it voiced from her, please go back to my 11/8 post here and re-read.
Quoting KAW: What you have been doing is drawing her closer, but it feels to her like she is stepping onto an unsteady plank with the old pain surrounding her. One false slip...
That's part of what you wrote on 11/8. BINGO. But she is the one bringing all that old pain back into the discussion! Perhaps as a message? I dont know.
I am glad to hear that this has happened to someone else! Makes me feel like al is not lost! And yes, I am making plans for myself this weekend (I dont have d tis weekend) and will try (damn its hard) NOT to contact my wife...actually, I think a weekend alone would be ice...I need the rest!
Thanks Kaw...you hit it on the head once again! Steph
Oh ya, one more thing...I found that I sometimes reverted to old behaviors that were counter-productive: quick to judge, lack of patience, and my wife noticed right away...sort of served to show her that the changes were NOT real! Well, I told her she was right but that this is a work in progress.
Note to self: Keep working on me and make those changes real, make them last!
" In my case, its time with my wife: "But I enjoy being with her 
. Some things were said in session last night that just hurt as hell. Funny thing is, it wasn't the "I dont love you and never will" part, I am getting used to that one 
. It was the personal attacks. My wife brought up some pretty mean things and attacked me personally, my personality, things I had done. I have NEVER done that to her. I could easily have brought up some of her personality traits that are very hard to deal with...we all have them, but I have never done it and never will...although I felt like it last night (and still sort of do today!). My wife says she DID try to fix our marriage but you know what, it was classic "if it doesn't work, why keep doing it" stuff. Like writing me letters (when we were together) critizising me for what I did wrong or what I did NOT do! She NEVER DID anything about it...just told me I was doing everything wrong! I dont know how to explain that to her...or even if I should! Of course I was diffensive, I was being attacked. This is how it was last night again...I refused to get into it, but it still stung! 
You manage to post again while I was still replying to your earlier one and in the more recent one you wrote: