You know, if it turns into some sort of a stand-off, and I actually have to start being "less invested" in completing the items on her list, it's going to be one of those "hard habits to break." I'll have to channel a tiny blackfoot to sit on my shoulder and say, "WTF? So the house is getting dusty. BFD. Don't you dare get out that dust rag. What? You're still planning on making a nice Sunday dinner for the two of you to enjoy after you put DD5 to bed? Don't you think you'd rather spend the afternoon doing something you WANT to do, and then open a can of chili, heat it in the microwave, and sit in front of the TV with a beer?"
I can so relate. My feeling on the matter is that all those things that you've learned to do because you are trying to be "better" in a difficult situation are things that you own. They represent your personal growth. Will you become "guy who doesn't fix nice dinner" in your next relationship just because you are getting laid? Keep doing all the things that you would do in a good relationship. Just stop doing all the things that you wouldn't do in a good relationship. Obviously this is completely a subjective, personal call.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
You are not prepared to leave so you have thrown out your most powerful weapon.
I would say that, depending on how the next few weeks go, this statement isn't necessarily true. If my W continues to disrespect my clearly-stated request, then, as MrsNop indicated, "What if you spill your guts and your spouse doesn't care about your feelings? Well, then that's good information for you to know to make further choices." And, although it continues to be a "last ditch" choice, we all have our limits.
I would like to echo MJ. Don't stop doing anything that is important to you. If a dust-free house is how you like to live, keep doing it. You wouldn't stop keeping your cubicle clean if your neighbors were jacka$$es at work. But you probably wouldn't take the time to get them a nice Xmas gift though.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
See, the thing I like about HD simply saying "I want to have an intimate encounter with you once per week" is that it does not admit argument. Virtually anything else he says about what he feels entitled to, what he deserves, what she should do, etc. can be countered with No you don't and no I shouldn't.
Hairdog said it about eight posts ago: what this plan will do will either get him sex once a week or make it clear that she is not willing to do this simple thing that he wants her to do.
I think at all costs, hd, you must avoid getting into any kind of conversation, defense of your position, courtroom scene, etc.
The state of the house, the behavior of the kids, whether you have your hair parted on the right or the left side-- none of this has any bearing on the essential point WHICH IS UNARGUABLE: You want an intimate encounter with her once per week. Period. No defense. No defense or explanation is necessary. It's absolutely clear why you want this. She knows it. You know it.
If you make that request and she says flat out "no," then just let that NO lie there in the like a fish twitching out its life on the dock.
Don't ask her why or try to convince her. If she says "or what?" say, "no, or what? This is not a contest or a debate. I'm simply making a request." Don't let her turn it into a point to be debated. There will be no debate, because there doesn't need to be a debate.
To the poster who said that the sex schedule will only reinforce the LD person's view that the HD [sic] person wants her only for sex. I think it's pretty clear to Mrs. HD that he does not want her only for sex. If he did, he would be long gone. She's not stupid. This is about power and control, not about sex (at least not for her).
But hd, that doesn't mean you should make the statement, "if I wanted you only for sex, I'd have been long gone, because that will just kick of a distracting series of blows."
Besides, I'm not convinced Mrs. HD is a LD person. I think she's so tight-a$$ed and proud and angry that she has forgotten where she put her sexuality. She has built an identity around being the Ferocious Feminist and she can't find her way down off that high horse.
At this point I don't care about her feelings, her beliefs, her fears-- I only care about her BEHAVIOR. HD is not an abusive guy who is going to ridicule and humiliate her. She CAN indeed trust him. She just needs to jump into the deep end of the pool.
Make the request. Let her respond. Do not defend, explain, or flinch.
DO NOT-- ABOVE ALL-- BE THE ONE TO BLINK FIRST. Resist the temptation to fill in an uncomfortable silence.
I say make the request every gd day, twice a day, until she agrees, even if just to shut you up.
I'll have to channel a tiny blackfoot to sit on my shoulder and say, "WTF? So the house is getting dusty. BFD. Don't you dare get out that dust rag. What? You're still planning on making a nice Sunday dinner for the two of you to enjoy after you put DD5 to bed? Don't you think you'd rather spend the afternoon doing something you WANT to do, and then open a can of chili, heat it in the microwave, and sit in front of the TV with a beer?"
Well, if you enjoy canned chili, and beer great. personally Id hand her a honey do list that had 'Dusting' on it. You both work hard, so make sure that hard work and equivalencey finds it way home too. Im not above doing house work but I am totally agains respect sapping man servant work.
Also I would be more inclined to find something to do sunday and tell her, 'Your turn to cook. I want fillintheblank for dinner, lets eat around 7pm' The other way seems punitive and withdrawing. Tell her what you want. Let her care for you. or find out if she wont. If she didnt want to be there, and didnt want to care for you she wouldnt be there.
The thing I see with burg and cobra with that 'or what' scenario is that they feel there has to be some repercussions. They dont realize that a woman will do it, simply out of feminine respect for the masculine.
This is a lame analogy, but Ive ridden horses since I was weelittle. If your comfortable and familiar around them you can just walk up and be around them and lead them around. Why in the world does this 1800 # animal that could kick/stomp/bite willing follow and or allow you to lead it around? however, if someone who is unfamiliar or scared of a horse tries to walk up and timidly and gingerly pick up the reins though, you will see the animal shiegh and snort and back away and roll its eyes. The person does the same thing. they jerk back wave the arms and scare the horse more.
back to 'or what'. I understand that with burg cause his wife is havin an affair and they say ultimatums arent good. Very possibly cobras wife is so hard that she has to have consequeces. your wife may be that way too HD. But in my experience over and over that women will simply do what you tell them to, because you told them too. you can simply say 'Do this', or 'Dont' or 'Stop'. its not ivy league debate team level speech. and from what I see of you, you arent comfortable with or experienced with simply telling a woman to do something for you.
I can hear the objections. 'It cant be that simple.'
dont get me wrong. they test, and they squint and they belly ache and they even say NO a lot. but if you dont react, never placate, and dont worry about it.... well then they do it.
Im going to share a quick example with you. Ive mentioned it before prior to our reconcil x and I were at thanksgiving with family. With one exception at the beginning of the night when she said something snotty to me about why the affair started, and I told her to take some responsibilty for her actions, (immediate boundary, not taking any crap from her) and her family stared at her and waited expectantly while she twisted with no reply, it was a pretty good and smooth night. So I was driving her back to her parents house, and she suddenly just went into complete b1tch mode.
I slammed on the brakes while pulling over, slammed my hand on the dash and said " I am putting up with enough sh1t from you right now. I dont know who you are when you start acting like that towards me, but I will NOT TOLERATE IT!!" I turned on the radio fairly loud and started driving. a couple minutes passed, she turned down the radio and started up conversation all nicey nicey again.
There was no 'or what'. It was simply a statement. a command.
Now I admit I had too much power in my M...I guess... but the problems in my R happened when I stopped requiring, and dropped all my boundaries. The more I required respect garnering bounderies, prior to our Reconcil the better things got. There was never any 'or what'. she knew I didnt want a divorce.
I still engage it successfully extensively. Im just not comfortable giving examples.
The only reason to not tell her what you want, is fear. Fear that she doesnt care. Have some faith in her. She wants to know who you are, what you want, what your thinking, you just have to tell her how. When she says no --just look at her and let her simmer in how uncaring of you she is. She allready admitted that she wants to be a better wife. Your IN.
Geeze . . . looks like they changed the board format again. I'm sure glad they put those boxes on the left. They really tell me what I want to know.
Anywho... I think that you may be right about the "or what" scenario. I guess we'll see. It may happen as soon as this weekend.
This morning she got snippy with me about not getting DD5 dressed and ready to leave for her Chinese lessons. The whole tone was like she was addressing a child.
"I don't deserve to be treated this way. I am an adult." "Well," she said, "if you stopped acting like a teenager, maybe I'd treat you as an adult." I stopped. I looked at her. Pause. Calmly said, "Don't try to justify your poor treatment of me as being my fault. I won't be treated this way." And I let it go, and began getting DD5 ready.
Did it stop her? No. Did I expect it to stop her? No. But, as she continued to focus on MY behavior, I just tuned her out, and did not react. She eventually (pretty quickly, actually) ran out of steam.
By the time I saw her again after she and DD5 left, she was mellow.
On a related note, I viewed that youtube video that Martelo linked to on the Superior Man thread. It was kind of hokey, but what I got out of it was that the most "powerful" man was the one who said nothing. He just stared right into the woman. He also invaded her space.
Then, I looked at the "related" Michael Jascz footage. He related a story about a man and a woman in a bedroom. The man was NOT ready to sleep. The woman was. She said, "I'm so tired, I just want to go to sleep." The man looked at her, paused, and, very calmly said, "Well, get ready."
That's the kind of confidence and power I want to be able to have.
Oh, and another thing. It's always bothered me that your W won't help with your children from your first M and you've explicitly agreed to that, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly why it bothered me. I'm starting to suspect that it's because, in the name of fairness, you continually accept less from your W than she's capable of giving.
Now I'm going to watch Superbowl commercials and maybe a bit of the game.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
