HD, I really really think you need to prepare so that you don't dig the same verbal pit that seems to magically appear under your feet whenever this subject is broached with your wife.
I firmly believe that the less said, the better.
If you have to tattoo a reminder on the palm of your hand that you will not participate in a reiteration of how you need to accept "no" graciously - how you're not this and you're not that - do not find yourself in the dock once more defending men and masculinity in general and you in the specific.
I'm going to quote some excerpts from a couple of my favorite posters from the MB forum that discussed incalcitrant issues, most notibly long-term, sexually withholding spouses. They address the mistaken idea that meeting emotional needs, cleaning house and buying flowers will get you a revved up wife. They also reference the failure to be honest and the reasons we don't get radically honest and tell our spouse just how much damage is occurring or that you're having the emotional equivalent of a fox chewing off his foot to escape the prison your (rhetorical you) marriage has become.
There may be some discontiniuty of thought since these are snippets I had pulled from multiple posts/threads.
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Too often, the question boils down to How can I get her to :
- do it more often - enjoy it like I do - act like - swallow - do oral - initiate -
as though there's some magic spot on a woman that makes them pliant to someone else -- "blow in her ear... they LOVE that.."
Basically, you don't "get" people to do anything. They decide to do it or they don't. You can't meet enough EN's. You can't eliminate enough love busters. You can't somehow manipulate yourself into some position where you get to call someone else's shots. It just never works that way.
MB stresses eliminating LB's and meeting emotional needs in order to build a happy marriage. That's not supposed to create an endless positive feedback loop. MB assumes that you can be radically honest and you are seeking to find mutually enthusiastic solutions as opposed to looking for a manipulation tool (a scorecard) that says "Hey, I did x, y, and z and now you OWE me ..
I think the step that most men seem to miss is the Radically Honest step. It's the step where they say:
I'm so unhappy that I think of leaving you every single day. I feel guilty about leaving the kids, though, so I don't think that's a good option. The truth is that I'll stay because of the children, regardless of how you treat me sexually, until they're either grown or some woman makes a pass at me in a weak moment and I succumb to an affair. Sheila patted me on the arm the other day at work and I found myself fantasizing about what she'd be like in bed. I don't like myself for doing that because it feels like I'm betraying you but I feel SO betrayed by our lack of sexual intimacy that I sometimes honestly wonder whether or not I care how much it would hurt you if I had an affair.
I don't like feeling this way. I'd really like to figure out some way to solve this problem before it turns into other, worse problems like divorce or affairs. Are you interested in discussing that?
Instead, they choose to withhold radical honesty and try to find "methods" to "get her" to do something she clearly doesn't want to do.
What if you spill your guts and your spouse doesn't care about your feelings? Well, then that's good information for you to know to make further choices. Maybe the next radically honest statement would be something like:
I'm no longer wiling to invest time or effort into meeting your EN's because I'm not willing to invest in a relationship in which my feelings and experiences aren't valued. I'm not willing to invest in a relationship that does not include solving problems I HAVE inside the relationship. Therefore, you should expect me to: I am no longer enthusiastic about doing any of those things. If that causes problems for you, I am open to negotiation as long as it involves solving some issues I have with the relationship, too.You can move to higher risk strategies. And, if you have the rare partner who truly isn't worried about WHAT you do or wants to divorce you if you won't meet his/her needs without expecting reciprocation, then you might recognize that is a form of abuse and end the marriage or allow the marriage to end. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
While this next one is referencing affairs rather than ssm(s), there are still valuable lessons contained. Especially note the comment about "overcompliance" and "entitled" spouses. (Emphasis in bold is mine).
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Raise you hand if you realize your biggest contribution to the A was overcompliance...failure to negotiate with a taker...marital inequity...and resentment.
I bet there are a lot of hands in the air.
That entitled WS mentality didn't just fall out of a tree did it?
Now...all of you who still have an entitled WS trying to earn that "F"...has the problem been corrected on YOUR part or are you still overcompliant, settling, and resentfull? [...]
Your boundaries for your new marriage model need to be absolutely crystal clear and 100% predictable.
If you need to be first priority before people, activities, jobs, the cat, the dog, children, parents, the environment, hobbies etc...then that is what you need to communicate and let them make their OWN choice about whether they are willing to agree to these terms.
That is an example of ONE boundary.
Look how much ground is covered just in that one statement "I want to be first priority in my relationship with you". Look how much opportunity for conflict IF that is not agreed on. There are so many things that would love a crack at getting in line ahead of you...and a lot of them are attractive to your spouse...it needs to be a foregone conclusion.
Why not just put your expectations right out on the table?
Could it be that you are still trying to influence and pursuade rather than ASK and risk being told flat out no?
Without a mutually embraced recovery plan...there isn't going to BE a recovery. The end of the affair and physical presence of the WS does not a marriage make. +++++++++++++++++++++++++
Short of abusive situations, sexual issues in the marriae have to be addressed AT THE SAME TIME as the relational issues in the marriage.
