Hairdog,

I've been running around with my head cut off all week, trying to check in on the board some, thinking of what I'd like to say on your thread, and Blackfoot comes in and says almost everything I was thinking! What I wanted to emphasize, at least IMO, is that all attempts to get her to "get" it are likely to be useless. I am going on the premise that your wife has some huge, serious trauma in her background.

Which reminds me - I am not sure I really know much about your wife. I knew you had an Asian daughter who I thought you adopted. Now I think you said something about your wife being Asian too. Is this correct? Can you tell us a little more about her background? Was she raised in the US? Were her parents born here or are they from the "old country?" What was her childhood like? Who abused her? Why is she such a b*tch? We need major details here.

Anyway, on with my thoughts before I forget... I think the ONLY way you are going to get her to understand anything about your POV or your needs is to turn on a light bulb within her by showing clear examples of things that hurt her feelings (hopefully she will get that!) and how you experience the exact same thing when she does those same things to you. I believe she has some strong narcissistic tendencies and therefore has learned to completely block any feelings of empathy. Since she is so smart, she has figured out ways to rationalize her position in lieu of feeling her real hurt. I don't believe you will ever get through this shell. Drop the strategy of "logicalling" her, it hasn't worked yet. You must approach her from her emotions, which is what she fears.

What is true, undeniable and inescapable is how she feels. That truth is within her, though very deep down. If you know what hurt her so badly as a child, then you need to capitalize on that. That is her weak point and that is your entry through her walls. The problem I see with some of the approaches discussed here is that they put you opposite her. She has built these walls because she already feels isolated from the world. Mounting a grand attack on those walls will only cause her to REALLY bring out the big guns. There will be casualties.

I think you are not ready to confront her yet, not matter how much you steel your nerve, rev up your indignation, or anything else. I do not see you having a real plan because I do not think you really understand her. What I recommend is this - lets discuss on this board all you know about her past, her FOO, what she experienced. If you need to, could you talk to some of her relatives to find out more. What do they say about her, about her parents? Let the ladies here get into her head a little better. You need to be looking for her core pain and fears. If you can identify that, even if it is not THE core issue, but a side issue, you will have an opening with which to make a plan.

A narcissist does not see reality. She wants to see whatever self image she needs to cover up her pain. What self image is it your wife wants to see? If you know that, it can be part of your plan. It can help you to lower her defenses so she can listen while you talk about YOUR hurts and fears. If you have a good analogy to her pain, then you may be able to segue into her hurts, and empathize with her in a fatherly, protective manner. I'm willing to bet she will eventually catch on to your tactics and start retaliating. If so, don't let it get to you, just keep after her and keep focusing like a laser on her core trauma and how she has used it to deflect, deny, hurt others, etc. Tell her that you KNOW she is hurt and scared, that you are not buying into her attacks and her anger does not scare or intimidate you AT ALL.

One very important point - keep pressing the attack while you have momentum. DO NOT start this and then stop halfway because you get weak or feel sorry for her. If you do, and she does not come to a full realization of what she is and what she is doing, she will see all of this as a very vindictive, underhanded, stab in the back. She will double her defenses and your next attempt will be even harder.

What she REALLY WANTS is for someone to understand. She WANTS you to open her up even though she will fight you. But if you can step back and observe as this process unfolds, you will notice that as each layers peels back, she will seem to accept it falling away, and focus on the next defense. As soon as it falls, she abandons it and moves to her next fall back position. Just let her. Keep pressing until she runs out of excuses. You need to be sharp, especially with her. That is why you need to be well prepared.

Now, once you get through to her, you will know. She will lessen the fight, she will become thoughtful, she will actually listen to SOME (not all) of what you say. At that moment of vulnerability you MUST rise to the occasion and hold her. She will fight to get free. Overpower her and hold on. Tell her you love her, understand her, that you are there to protect her, whatever her LL is.

I am really hoping you can get her to cry. Remember Corri's comment on her thread, that she is now learning to cry and it actually feels good? If you can get her to cry, she will be able to release a lot of anger, fear, tension, and doing so in your arms will FEEL GOOD. It is extremely important she EXPERIENCE this with you. It is trust building. She has probably never felt this with anyone in her life. I am guessing this is what she is angry about and what she has always wanted, probably from one of her parents. This is the truth deep within her, the pain she is protecting with those embattlements.

This approach can put the two of you on the same team, and let her know that HER pain and fear is YOUR pain and fear, and that she has nothing to be ashamed of in admitting this (how big an issue is shame for her?) She needs to COMPLETELY understand that you are NOT going to use this as ammunition against her, which is one of her fears. This is why making yourself vulnerable to another is so important. It tells the other person you will not use their vulnerability against them (ya hear this Heather?) If that person has any sense of morals, they will not use your vulnerability against you either. In fact, it is almost certain they won't.

Remember, the fact you are embroiled in this struggle, and she stays with you in order to continue the struggle, means she is just as frustrated as you. She is frustrated in part because she has expectations that she does not think you are meeting. That gap between reality and expectation is not the issue. The important thing is that SHE HAS EXPECTATIONS! So she still wants you to meet her needs. She wants this to work, though in her own controlling way. Even a narcissist sees the self serving logic in this. So I would not be concerned that she will use your vulnerability against you. Even that is too low and unethical for her. If she does, then I would say the marriage is truly over.

Now back to the plan. She has low self esteem. All narcissists do. They just act like they have loads of esteem. Remember, everything is an illusion, almost the exact opposite of reality. She has a hard time accepting praise or compliments and likewise does not like it when people appear false or seem to be sucking up or placating. That is why she believes she is more moral, more pure in being brutally honest, why her anger and meanness is justified. She is just speaking the truth.

So you have to be completely honest with her. She will feel respected by that, even if she may not like what she hears. Just know that she hates to face her vulnerability even more, so I think she can deal with it. If this is true, then you must tell her that you are willing to sooth her needs, to be on her team, but you want her to be on your team too. Admit to your selfish interests. Nothing wrong with that. Do not cover it up. Lay everything on the line. Even if what you say sounds a little more like a contract than a bearing of souls, I think it will actually feel more comfortable to her. Don't push for too much in setting expectations and agreements for future actions. Her fears of commitment to becoming more vulnerable could overwhelm her. Getting her to confront her core feelings and experiencing emotion is your main objective here.

I would also say that if she is a physically strong woman, in good shape and with strong endurance, you need to be prepared to take her on physically. By that I mean you must be ready to stay in the discussion as long as it takes, even if you have to stay up and argue all night long, all weekend long. Let her wear down and give in from pure exhaustion. It doesn't matter as long as she can experience surrendering to you without fear of being attacked from such vulnerability. But during this try to find a time when you can hold her. Let her experience what safe surrender feels like. She must EXPERIENCE it. She has blocked her feelings and emotions all her life. You have got to show her what is means to FEEL and that it is safe to do so.

Now, YOU need to be ready for this. Let me HEARRRRR YOU. CAN YOU DOOO ITTTTTT!!??? LOUDER!!!


Cobra