z, this past friday night, I was upset about the fact that she was still calling him and he was being ok with her calling, so friday when he came over, (mind you, he didn't ASK to spend time with me) I decided it was best that i go out for me for a while, so when he got here, I did just that, grabbed my darts, went and saw a movie, then stopped by a local dive shot some darts, was asked to play with another and then play another team. left at about 11pm, when I got to the car h had called and left a message on the cell just to let me know he was watching the game and was fading that i could wake him if I wanted to and that he hoped i was having fun. h never asked where i was or who i was with. I couldn't keep it in so sat night while we were out at the party I asked him if he cared he said if i wanted him to know i'd tell him so i did, he smiled at the fact that i went out and did all that by myself. tonight i went to my book club meeting, h said he probably wouldn't wait up assuming i'd be very late, I told him he could if he wanted to that i probably wouldn't be that late, h is asleep on the couch, don't know if that means he was trying to wait up or if he just fell asleep there but he is here non the less and that is further along than we were a few months back. LL
the wheels are a spinnin again, how is it that a man who had no physical affection toward me for so long and supposidly is not "in love" with me, is now full of hugs and pets and physical advances, how am I to believe that this man was not physical with the woman he was seeing on a reg basis for 2+ years that he was "in love" with???? for them to both claim, "it just wasn't like that" baffles me. LL
LL I feel some of your pain, especially about trust. I think you read my post, our r are similar, my h says they are friends. We had a serious talk last week about him feeling like he needs to leave, told me again that all along he had been telling me she meant nothing to him but a friend and if I knew her whole sitch, I would understand.He promised her he would not tell me, so he won't. How do I really trust him, if he would show signs of trying to work on our m, that would help. Sounds like your h is trying and you have to slowly regain trust.I guess there have been little signs this week that i am not taking as good things, he has come home earlier then usual, does not rush right off after day job to get out to part time church work, so I have to hold on to these small things. I just wish he would touch me, hug me anything that says maybe we will be ok. Have a great day Sue
i just want to go home!! click my heels and be happy, I do not know where that home is anymore or where that happiness is but i am not happy now. i had asked h to come over friday night to watch the kids so I can go to a dbr's gathering, h said he would, now h is asking me to find a sitter so he can work late and then stay at his appartment. needs his "space" I wont be here so what space is it he needs, space from his kids??? h expects that now because we are trying the schedule agreed upon during separation have changed, sundays were his day with the kids and my day off, h now thinks he can go watch football with his friend and I will watch the kids, and yet when I want to go out I have to find a sitter????? what about my space?? I never got space, I have been in this house with the kids every night, while he has lived away for six months and continues to live away now. why do i have to wait for h to fall "in love" with me before he'll come home, is that in fact what he is even waiting for??? what are we doing anyway??? am I an obligation or THE ONE he wants to be with. right now I think he really wants to be with her, but "owes it to me and the kids to try again" and no it is not speculation, h does honeslty believe he is in love with her, that they have a r, and a good one, that he never had that with me, never felt that way with me, but owes it to me to at least try. why am i even doing this??????? LL
ya know, LL, you keep saying this, in some form or another. It was once every few days, then every day, and now today at least 3 times on your 2 different treads...
Quote: and no it is not speculation, h does honeslty believe he is in love with her, that they have a r, and a good one, that he never had that with me, never felt that way with me, but owes it to me to at least try.
I'm curious, when was the last time he told you this? Unless he repeats it to you half as frequently as you post it her, it seems to me that you are totally out of control on this, you are totally obsessed with his. You must let go of this statement, stop reveling and wallowing in the pain it causes you. If not, all you will have is this blinding pain.
Now, as to your current childcare situation, I find it interesting that your recent posts seem to consider your current sitch somewhat different than "separated", even though you still live apart. I would even call it a sign ofreal progress in your PMA. But, truly, you are still separated, so there is no real reason that you should expect that the child arrangements should change. Sundays were his day, Sundays are still his day. Don't get angry about his wanting to do something else, just point out that it's his responsibility. As for Friday, you arranged with him to have the kids, he agreed. Not your responsibility, it's his. Sure you can help him out and try to find someone, but it's his agreement, his responsibility. Stop getting angry and taking the responsibility back. Stop taking it personally.
z,
honestly it was just tuesday night that he sat and told me of his feelings in not the same words but,the jist is gotten, now he doesn't say outright that he doesn't want to be with me says "if I wanted to be there I would" but upond deciding to try, he did say he had to put his feelings and needs aside for his family, so what does that say.
h does not deny being in love with her, and fully admits to not being in love with me.
as far as the separation schedule sundays are not his free day but his day to be with the kids, so his expecting me to care for the kids so he can go watch football with a buddy is not part of the agreement, now there was discussion before his "trying" about when he has a game to go to (season tickets) but that doesn't include watching a game on tv with a friend, if we were not "trying" but still separated as we are sun would be his responsibility. seems as if in "trying" h is trying to get back all his freedom and take mine away. h may be comming over more often, but is comming later and skipping out of sundays.
I just don't know what I can do, h is trying, but really I cannot give him the simple basic responsibility free commitment free no obligation r that he had with her. she after all had a husband.
while we were not trying, h would come tue and thurs nights and I would go out, he would sleep on the couch and that was that. he would come on sun I would go to church and go out for the day, every other sat night h would come and stay into sun, I would go out sat night and again leave in the am (if I came home, funny that h decided to "try" after the first sat night that I DIDN'T come home)
now h comes several nights sometimes after the kids are asleep, on occasion has not come on a tue or thurs because he needs his space. when I have brought up the schedule in regard to sundays h gets bothered. even for this sun, i let him know I would still like to go to mass, thing is I will have to rush home after so he can get to his friends to watch the game, odd thing is that during the time that we were seperated in the r not just in living space h would watch the game here with the kids and who ever he wanted to watch with would come over, the last sun that I still went and did my own thing (played paint ball with my brothers) h got mad at me.
I did tell him that he'd need to find a sitter for sun, but that he took as me being unfair to him.
seems like when h is interested or drawn to me is when I am distant toward him, not calling, not talking and not caring what he does, when I am drawn to him he pulls away.
i cannot compete with an illusionary idea of what a r is supposed to be. does he not realize that the reason their r was so good was because she had a h and therefore he was just a bonus a friend? how can I compete with that?? I am his wife, we do share family and history, we do share a home and children and responsibility.
I am threatend not by ow, but by the illusion in my h's head as to what a r is supposed to be.
LL
Quote: now he doesn't say outright that he doesn't want to be with me says "if I wanted to be there I would" but upond deciding to try, he did say he had to put his feelings and needs aside for his family, so what does that say
What does this say??? This says "I don't want to be there, I choose to be here". This is HUGE!!! Don't disregard this. For whatever reason, he wants to be with YOU and your family. He doesn't want to be with her. You've got to notice and celebrate the baby steps. You've got to, as I believe JJ once said "catch them doing it right".
Ok, notice that he "told you his feelings in not the same words..." What same words, the ones you frequently use, or the one's he once used? If you say that he is saying the same thing that he once did, but in different words, how are those words different? Is he conveying a similar idea, but with slightly less intensity, but you are hearing the old words because they hurt so much??? I do that. My W once said she "cringed" at my touch. Then not long ago in C, she said something like she "pulled back". Honestly, I don't recall what she said, because I "mirrored" back "cringed". The C said "She didn't say cringed". I said, "well, she used to." C said, "but she's not saying it now. Don't you see how huge that is? Don't you see the change, the positive growth?" The little things we choose to ignore could be so important in helping us change our attitude, in improving our PMA.
"admits not being in love with me".... Yeah, yeah, we all get that. "I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you..." What the hell does being "in love" mean??? Think about that. If you ever come up with an answer, let me know, because I would love to share it with my W when she says that to me (my W's variation is "I just wish I could fall in love with Z again")
The rest of what you say is the same thing I said, except you managed to bring her up again. In bringing her up, you are making this about you. You are taking it personally. It's not personal. He is being selfish. He wants this time to do what he wants to do. But he agreed to something else. Until you and he agree to change that arrangement, he must honor his agreements. They are responsibilities he accepted and needs to maintain or renegotiate. Honestly, you have no right to let him off the hook for those responsibilities any more than he has the right to shrug them off on you. If you do, and you continue to resent him because of it, you are being terribly unfair by condemning him because of your weakness in enforcing the agreement. That is not his fault, it's yours. Now, I know this is a potential point of conflict, and I know I will go to unbelievable lengths to avoid conflict. But that is, at least in my case, a huge part of the problem in my marriage --- avoiding conflict. This is communication, not battle. This negotiating and making agreements and trusting that those agreements will be kept. It's knowing the limits and responsibilities of both parties. Sure, things can be changed -- renegotiated as when you did with the season tickets. But the base agreement is still in force... Don't take it personally, just live up to the agreement, and change it together if necessary.
z, I did ask h how he defines "in love" how do you know when you are "in love" with someone, h said, wanting to be around that person and wanting that person to be around you. (hmm and he is not in love with me???) someone who understands how he feels, listens when he talks, appreciates him etc....
you are right in that I should not be thinking he is in love with someone else but is choosing to be with me, I should be thinking he IS choosing to be with me, I had stopped asking him to try on us, he came to that descision on his own. he can still be with ow, and he is right in that, she is still available to him and actually is making herself totaly available to him in asking her h for a d. (and yes I know this is not about her) I just don't want to live with a man who thinks he is settling, giving up on that once in a life time person that he (may) thinks she is.
this is about me and my h and our children, h is right he doesn't have to be with me, was already out and we were adjusting fine. so why now that he on his own decided to try am I dwelling on his feelings for another person???? because I want him to have those feelings for me since that is what he was missing that led him to her. I just don't know what I am supposed to do now. LL
The "settling" thing is a fear everyone has... Thoreau remarked that the mass of men live lives of quiet desperation. Your H has decided to stop being quiet. He doesn't want to be desperate. He wants a choice. Believe me, what he choose won't be settling. He knows he has the power of that choice now. Your job is to not scare him into making the wrong choice. It's possible to do that, because he's probably doing a whole lot more "re-acting" that clear thinking about your R right now. Remove yourself from his drama so you are not a part of the drama against which he reacts. Then he will see that it is his drama that he's made all for himself.
As for the feelings.... He told you what being "in love" means to him. Being "in love" is only definable to the self. Your definition doesn't apply to him, so if he tells you he is not "in love" with you, your definition doesn't work. But, you are likely insulted using your own personal definition. What's important to do is to learn his definition and fulfill his requirements it you wish to have him be "in love". But, you still have a right to hold him accountable to his agreements.
it's funny, h called earlier today to say hello and see what we were up to, he sounded down so I asked him if he was ok, he said no, stressed from work and our sit, I said alot of things I know I shouldn't but some of it is nessisary to hear, I let him know that alot of men over the years have been "in love" with me, that it is easy to fall "in love" that it is easy to keep that "in love" feeling when you are just friends, when there is no responsibility no expectaions. when you enter that r that is beyond "friendship" things do change, not always a good thing but it happens. it is much easier to be the ow than to be the woman. I let him know that i do not want to keep him from being happy, that we can have a fulfilling and good life with eachother and that the happiness he is seeking will come, let him know that I believe it, but that he also has to believe it and right now I don't think he does and as long as he has this disbelief it will not happen. I let him know that i also have the # of a laywer (he saw two during the non trying time) and that if it would be easier for him that I just set him free I will, I will not keep him as he is no more mine than I am his.
I say these things to him not out of anger but out of truth, I know as well as he does that making a real r between the two of us will take patience (yes you may point out that I have none) and thoughfull consideration of the other.
funny thing is one would assume that after such a conversation i would not hear from him but alas not more than an hour later he called the house, we were not home so he called the cell, i called him back, he seemed in a better mood, was just calling to say hi and see if we had any success in finding what we were out looking for, said no perhaps i should try another time with out the two children so i can focus, he said well maybe the two of us should go sometime together. (was my actual thought but didn't want to make the suggestion and told him so) he said he would call again later before I went out.
seems like when I am telling him he is free he decides he doesn't want to be, it was only a few short weeks after I took his wedding ring from him and told him to end the cherade and set me free get this all overwith and file, that he decided he wanted to try.
btw the definition of "in love" that i gave was what he said to me after I asked how he would know when and if he were "in love" with me.
so were do we go from here??? think I'll just continue to go about my business and let him figure out what he wants. LL
